Singularity Playing Cards live on KS

[badpete69]

First project, unsuccessful.

[robcan0630]

Seems overpriced, especially for 1 to 2 decks, which is all is be after. Going to pass on this. Just can't see the value at the asking price compared to other decks available.


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[macstrat]

I really like the idea. It just seems hastily done to me. The AoS is nice, but the rest fill me with a fair amount of anxiety, as does the questionable job that was done on the court card masks. They kinda look like Johnny 5 sneezed on a deck of cards. If it could be refined quite a bit, I would back it.

[Outsider]

That KoD got a genuine laugh out of me, it looks like his head exploded. The QoD isn't too bad either, look at those beady red eyes!

Alas, I'm not in the market for exploding head decks at this time.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Holy crap these are overpriced...

[STLBluesNut]

I kind of like these, mostly because of all of the orange. However, the price makes it a pass.

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[Harvonsgard]

That Queen of Diamonds sure smokes a lot of... ehm, for medical purpose of course...

Easy pass. The same template effect around some pips and some faces of the courts!?

[RelativityCards]

Hi guys, PipChick sent me in this general direction. I've been hanging out a lot on Instagram and thought maybe it was time to show up here.

I'm bringing Singularity back to KS in just over two weeks and I'd love to have a chance to answer questions, ask questions, admit failures etc.

Sorry if this counts as thread necromancy

I'll start by saying that yes, the deck was too expensive. I had it in my head that people would be really excited by the exclusivity I was building into it: in case of "selling" less than the 1000 deck minimum, I was going to take all of the extra decks and just sit on them for two years, allowing collectors, etc. to control the market. Because of that decision, I had to make the goal high enough that I wouldn't be in the red in the two-year short term. Reverse engineering that goal with some contingencies and worst-case scenarios, I came up with the cost per deck. All of it disastrous, obviously and that whole idea is going away.

I had started with a design for an orange deck with plenty of countering white space. I wanted an open center, inspired by the likes of Orbit, Atelier, and others. It was a flat, single-color back (as shown in one of the images above) as a challenge to myself. I was heading in this fractal "black hole" direction, and then the first image of a black hole came out, with all of its orange glory! I pivoted, sampling the crap out of the colors and building the final back design.

That exploding-head king? That was the original iteration that I was going to do for all of the courts, before the black hole image. (Sidenote... never starting a KS description again with a "road to here" story. Those pictures lead the whole thing off and were NOT representative of the actual deck! ) So that all changed. I kept the splodey-head king as a gaff card (BTW, that's all supposed to be debris and matter getting spaghettified / sucked in, not an explosion) and decided to use the actual black hole image for all (most) of their eyes... which is Creative Commons, btw. No illegal substances, just projections of gravity waves. Sorry my KS imagery fell flat in that regard... should have been larger. I also recolored them with samples from the black hole image. Holy crap is "black hole" getting tedious to type

Taking inspiration from decks like Fulton's Clip Joint, I wanted to mess with the pips a little. First, the reds have been shifted to a burnt orange--the same as my original card back. Then I made one pip per card into a black hole. And they are all different.

I know it's not everybody's jam. And the price WAS too high. I'm fixing that.

I have also made a black version... which I initially refused to do because I was afraid I would look like a hack, just straight up ripping off the image but people have really dug it. The IG crowd is in a 3-way split between white, black, and both, which I certainly didn't expect.

I don't... really know how to put any images here. It looks like maybe I'm too new to do so? You can see a lot of pictures of both decks (and also, let's be fair, a lot of other nonsense) on my Insta: https://www.instagram.com/relativitycards/

There are also some more focused images here: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Relativity- ... 4141931877

Sorry this is long, hopefully it's at least a little bit productive. I'll probably post a preview link of the campaign in the next week or so.

If you read all of that, thank you

[RelativityCards]

EDIT: my original post above took 2 weeks to get approved. I gave up and wrote this one, so that's why I'm introducing myself twice

Sorry if this is thread necromancy, but I thought I'd pop in here, as the designer of Singularity. (PipChick encouraged me to come say hello )

Not a whole lot to say about my first attempt except that, yeah, it was way too expensive. I had built waaaay more contingency and what-if into my goal and per-deck costs than necessary. Lesson learned, among others.

After some time off to regroup, I'm coming back to Kickstarter this weekend, now also with a black version of the deck!

Here's a preview link to the campaign if you'd like to take a look:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/re ... n=ca1d4eb2

Feedback welcomed. Thanks

[Harvonsgard]

The new campaign looks solid and good. Nothing confusing and unnecessary. While the deck isn't something for me personally, I wish you best of luck with the campaign.

[Eric Lee]

As for the funding goal, I think the most important part is getting your deck funded. You may want to relook at the costing to see how much for 1 deck to be funded and fix that as the goal. Then have the other deck offered as a stretch goal to give people a reason to pledge.

If it doesn't pledge you could do a survey to see how many would back the 2nd deck or just launch it later once the 1st deck has been fulfilled and enough buzz has been generated for the 2nd deck. BTW, I really like the black deck as the orange and black contrasts create a cool visual effect. But what's holding me back for pledging right now, besides $, is the courts.

That was a good idea putting the singularity image on the QoH and JoD, but why stop there? The eyes aren't enough, IMHO. For some of them, it makes some of them look creepy. (QoD and QoS) It would have been nice if the KoD exploding head was the actual card and not a gaff. Perhaps the KoH as the suicide king with the exploding head? That would be cool!

You could include the singularity in each part of the individual court cards that blends in well, like the KoC sword pommel, center of all the flowers, in their clothes, scepters.

Google RiffleShuffle's Squeezers deck and TheGentlemanwake's Parlor deck to see what I mean on how they tweaked the courts to include the theme.

In fact you can see the design process thread for that deck right here : viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12620

Hope you find this helpful

[aardvarkgod]

Some of the concepts are decent, and I like the black/orange contrast...but I got to say, the JoD is weird, man.

[RelativityCards]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

I have definitely been weighing the options as for as which deck/decks to kickstart. The Instagram community is in an even 3-way split between wanting white, black, and both. I didn't want to hold anyone hostage by making one available and the other a stretch goal.

As for the courts; some people love them, and some people definitely don't
It feels a little late to workshop them now since I'm launching tomorrow, but I suppose, depending on how that goes, I might have time

Yeah, the JoD has a black hole for a mouth, and it's pretty weird . But speaking of committing to a theme, a la Peelers, etc., it's a bit of an homage to the JoD in Squeezers

[RelativityCards]

I assume someone who knows what they are doing can start a new thread for it, but here's a link to the relaunch

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/re ... -and-white

[aardvarkgod]

I assume someone who knows what they are doing can start a new thread for it, but here's a link to the relaunch

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/re ... -and-white

Here ya go!

[Outsider]

My opinion hasn't changed, these are some really strange looking cards.

But credit where it's due, $22 shipped for two decks printed on crushed stock is not a bad deal.

[RelativityCards]

Here ya go!

Yay! Thanks

[RelativityCards]

My opinion hasn't changed, these are some really strange looking cards.

But credit where it's due, $22 shipped for two decks printed on crushed stock is not a bad deal.

Thanks, I worked really hard to make it an attractive proposition.

But speaking of, what is it about the design that's most visually offensive to you? I'm assuming it's not the cardbacks. Courts? I honestly originally considered just a recolor (it seems to be good enough for a lot of people?) but I wanted to go further. Too far and not far enough at the same time?

[hsbc]

I'm appreciative that you're willing to come here and engage with us but I'm in the do-not-like camp on these

I like the idea of the black-hole/exploding color thing, but I don't think that this is the way to go - the straight lines making up the weird triangle shapes... it just doesn't really work and looks unfinished.

On the back, I'm not exactly sure what I'd add but I feel like it needs something. Maybe the edges should be borderless? And the pips that have the black hole effect, they're uneven - look at the bottom of the 7 of hearts - and then they just stop to create a border around the card when necessary? And with the dark edition, the courts need to have the box color changed - see the king of diamonds, the border around the actual court illustration is basically invisible

I hope that helps explain?

[RelativityCards]

I'm appreciative that you're willing to come here and engage with us but I'm in the do-not-like camp on these

I like the idea of the black-hole/exploding color thing, but I don't think that this is the way to go - the straight lines making up the weird triangle shapes... it just doesn't really work and looks unfinished.

On the back, I'm not exactly sure what I'd add but I feel like it needs something. Maybe the edges should be borderless? And the pips that have the black hole effect, they're uneven - look at the bottom of the 7 of hearts - and then they just stop to create a border around the card when necessary? And with the dark edition, the courts need to have the box color changed - see the king of diamonds, the border around the actual court illustration is basically invisible

I hope that helps explain?

Happy to engage!
And I'm not going to try to convert you, at least on purpose

I definitely tested letting the design go borderless (and letting the black hole pips bleed off the edge, too) but for the sake of magicians I wanted a border. Same goes for the pips. The edges of the deck would be super irregular and that would be off-putting for casual card users (which maybe I'm making up! Maybe no one is ever going to play a game with the things we kickstart!) and which a magician wouldn't appreciate, either.

It's a matter of concession. Should I have made this a pure cardistry deck? Is that market large enough and does a magician want this deck at all anyway? I could be dead wrong, for sure. I will say that I have borderless plans for the future

Peeling back the curtain a bit, the shape of the effects on pips does relate to their shape, if I let it. It's an insanely complicated vector effect. Diamonds were entirely too uneven and always had gaps at each corner. I'm actually using clubs to render the diamonds' effects. I honestly considered doing the same to the hearts, but I tried to render and rerender to at least get something that wasn't always empty at the point. I hadn't gotten any other negative feedback on the hearts or I probably would have leaned more into a substitution there as well.

Because of the nature of the "jaggies," shall we say, I can't really divert them or alter them without the entire thing imploding, which is why I fade them off at USPCC's 3/16ths no-fly-zone to leave a border. They are weirdly fragile objects to work with. The number of times I've made an innocent minor adjustment and had them morph uncontrollably... it's nearly comical. And an undo doesn't fix it, only reopening files. This is Adobe Illustrator, btw, not some unknown workspace

I've gone on and on, but I do have something to say about your last point, too

That's on me... I used CMYK-colorspace JPGs when making my print proofs and then reused them in the KS campaign... the black doesn't render as a true black in RGB so some contrast is lost. I can assure you that the actual cards print with plenty of visibility on the red court borders... but I shouldn't have to reassure you. I should have just made new images

[hsbc]

Well that is an amazingly thorough answer!! Thanks so much, we need more creators like you - I'm in for a deck now too, $15 isn't bad at all

This campaign is for two decks, right? I wonder if having both is worth the higher (doubled?) amount you need to raise? And the campaign is loooong, I feel like this year playing card campaigns have begun to shift to two- or three-week campaigns instead (disclaimer, I have no idea how KS actually works for creators) So it's nice to have more time for the project to be out there and get attention, but I also think people are finding that past a certain point, you've got everyone you're likely going to get - playing cards are still a pretty niche market

[RelativityCards]

Thanks! Super appreciated. Which color are you picking up?

Yeah, both black and white versions. Everyone is super split on their favorite, so it seemed that I needed to do both in order to not leave a third of people out (black vs. white vs. both.)

The amount isn't actually doubled; though it would be much more comfortable for me if it was! If I were doing a single deck, I would have set the goal at about $6k

As for the loooooong campaign, that has a story, too I would have relaunched sooner, but I was advised to hold off because of Jerry's Nugget, Butterfly, and Mono Xero. I set a date of July 13th, began announcing it, and then asked people when they wanted it to end A decent chunk of people needed it to end more like August 15th, 20th, or beyond, to let their wallets recover from these other projects. So it was a semi-tactical way to deal with the impact of these giants

I see that my first post from two weeks ago was finally approved so head back up the thread if you want even more explanation and penitence

[Outsider]

But speaking of, what is it about the design that's most visually offensive to you?

Stone cold? I have no idea what you're going for here, aesthetically. It looks like maybe "chaos" is the idea judging from the out of order uncut sheet and yet the courts are rather repetitive, several of them just look like they have stoner eyes.

The white backs suffer from way too much white space. Black cards somewhat solve that, but it still seems a little empty. The border also sticks out on the design like a sore thumb considering the rest of the card has nothing.

The "exploding head" king is probably the most visually interesting court, and it's good for pretty much one court only regardless of how much time or detail went into it. But it's a gaff, because nothing else even comes close. If every court card had something unique and about this strange going on, you might have something. Not necessarily something I'd love, but something.

[RelativityCards]

But speaking of, what is it about the design that's most visually offensive to you?

Stone cold? I have no idea what you're going for here, aesthetically. It looks like maybe "chaos" is the idea judging from the out of order uncut sheet and yet the courts are rather repetitive, several of them just look like they have stoner eyes.

The white backs suffer from way too much white space. Black cards somewhat solve that, but it still seems a little empty. The border also sticks out on the design like a sore thumb considering the rest of the card has nothing.

The "exploding head" king is probably the most visually interesting court, and it's good for pretty much one court only regardless of how much time or detail went into it. But it's a gaff, because nothing else even comes close. If every court card had something unique and about this strange going on, you might have something. Not necessarily something I'd love, but something.

Oof. Stone cold indeed

Thanks for the feedback, though

I'm toying with minimalism. Practically skirting the edge of it, I suppose. But that's why the whitespace. And they are beautiful in motion (at least I think so ) And you get the black hole theme, right? I thought it was pretty clear in the campaign, but no worries if you haven't looked at it or got a different impression. And you're perfectly welcome to not like it. You'll have to trust me,though, that I haven't brought it this far with everyone telling me it's bad. I wouldn't have bothered Your taste is totally valid

The uncut isn't random. The deck is arranged in Mnemonica stack order. And I didn't make that decision in a vacuum: 2/3rds of survey respondents on Instagram wanted it (which was a surprise to me... more magicians than I expected!) As such, that's what it has to look like on a press sheet

[RelativityCards]

Could someone please start a new thread for the relaunch? I'm concerned that people are going to see the failed kickstarter and old images on the front page and not know that it's live. I'd do it but I don't know how to embed images so that they actually appear instead of being links

Thanks

[hsbc]

I reported your post with a note asking a moderator to update the first post

I hope I don't get yelled at

[RelativityCards]

Here's hoping

[MagikFingerz]

I reported your post with a note asking a moderator to update the first post

I hope I don't get yelled at

Updated the first post

Also, while I can't speak for the other mods, I fully support doing that. Makes it easier for us to notice

[RelativityCards]

Awesome, thank you!
Too bad the following posts are all "It's too expensive!" Hopefully people look further than that

[theCapraAegagrus]

EB pricing seems decent.