UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:05 pm**

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:57 am “Frankly, we considered to quit and leave everyone behind” is a pretty ugly sentence, and while they did get “pulled out of the abyss” by love, the need to raise capital and do reprints does not make it seem impossible that they will fall back in.

Prior to this they had discussed shipping cost issues, and in my communication with them told me they were doing inventory counts and working out shipping logistics, it is quite obvious the issues are legion.

Their statement that there is “no refund option available” may well be true for kickstarter backers, at least depending on your state laws, but for backerkit backers I would think that refunds are certainly at the buyers discretion.

We will have to see if they post another update in a reasonably short time and manage to work out their funding issue, but I wouldn’t wait until the fall (neither the season nor the condition)

I have gone from excited about these cards to now having to do request chargebacks from my debit card issuer. I have yet to hear back from them about it, but I am so pissed with this last update. I spent over $300 for these cards, and I know others have spent a lot more. They completely dropped the ball and this last update sounds deranged. I typically only back playing cards on KS because that seems like a pretty easy thing to not screw up or overpromise, and this is looking to be the second KS that I paid money and got nothing for playing cards. Hopefully, I can get my refund as I don't even want these card anymore there being so much bad blood with them now.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:29 pm**

This one did catch people by surprise - they were a known company and its always hard to imagine them flushing their business down the toilet with such a bright future to look forward to.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:32 pm**

I am sooo glad I decided to cancel my pledge on this one at the last minute. What a colossal mess.

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:36 pm**

So I really got lucky ordering and receiving just the double set I guess?

Posted: **Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:42 pm**

You were lucky indeed

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:08 am**

Perhaps I am also lucky as well that the decks got fulfilled from BacketKit order before any of this big mess happened

Pray they will rise up and fix the mess…

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:09 pm**

Now their plan is to collect money from us backers as investments and they issue bonds and they will be paid in cash. I'm not even sure this is legal anymore. What is happening

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:54 pm**

Trying to make sense of the last update, but it’s hard to make sense of - and I see they have several updates since the 17th including a “first come first serve” one…

The only update I can read is the latest one, so several hidden from me at the moment.

What is your best understanding of the situation at this point?

Who is getting their pledges, who is not? (From what I saw in comments 180 are now in a first come first serve situation out of the 755 backers)

How much is their shortfall that they need to raise to complete the campaign?

(Pretty sure it cant be the sums I see them trying to raise, which appear to be the entire amount the campaign raised and then some…)

As for giving them more money as an investor - I certainly wouldn’t - perhaps they will sell their assets to someone, but I doubt they will get the amount they speak of in the post I saw…

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:07 pm**

I don't think it's clear how much they need. They said 180 pledges, which makes no sense as the pledges are all different. So that doesn't really tell us how many of which deck they have. And therefore it's unclear how many of which deck they need and how much money for those unfulfilled decks. Then they said they will raise funds for the remaining pledges to fulfil at a later time. And today was their plan for now to raise funds.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:45 pm**

What are the contents of the first come first serve update?

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:52 pm**

This is the first come first serve q&a update. Lmk if you want to see a different one. This was the one trying to clear up confusion about the first come first serve from a previous update.

We want to apologize for any confusion in the last few updates.

The kickstarter update content used to be provided by Singapore Skymember, we are embrassed to say that Malaysia team is not strong in communication.

Our product quality is not a question, but at the moment what we are lacking is a professional coordinator to deliver messages to backers.

Therefore we are sincerely looking for a trusted and experienced coordinator to supervise us and assist in message response. If you believe you are the right person or know any suitable candidates, please reach out to us via support@skymemberpresent.com

Moving forwards, we will focus and improve our communication level hoping to deliver a better customer experiences.

PLEASE FORGET the past Skymember Presents. Give us and yourself a chance to meet the new Skymember Presents.

After a night of filtering every comment and message, we made a bullet points Q & A to clear your doubts.

Why 180 orders and first come first served basics?

Playing Cards, Tuck Case, Deluxe box and other add-ons were produced. Due to damaged stocks and high wastage during production & assembly process, we estimate the remaining stock are only sufficient to fulfill approximately 180 orders.

After we fulfill these 180 orders, we will pour OUR MONEY to reproduce the decks and add-on for the remaining orders.

If we have sufficient cash flow, we are confident able to reproduce and fulfill the orders within 2-3 months.

How much does the DHL Express fee top up?

As listed in google form, the average DHL Express top up-fees is between USD 39-89.00.

How does it work?

E.g. The shipping fee to your address is $64 USD and you paid $28 shipping fee on Kickstarter. Therefore we only need you to pay the balance $36.00.

What if my tier included VIP free shipping? Am I still required to pay the additional shipping fee?

Yes, but we will cover $25 for you. For example, shipping to your address is $39.00, you only need to pay $14.00.

Guardian Tier & Malaysia Backers are not required to pay the shipping!

What if I refused to pay an additional shipping fee?

We regret to say at the moment, we could only ship to backers via DHL Express to avoid any package losses and damages. We understand your frustration, but shipping through the fulfillment center (Pacful) is no longer an option. The collected shipping funds from Kickstarter are intended to use for domestic (USPS) and registered tracking mail only.

No single cent profits are made through the upgrade. All funds would be used to make your shipment safer and better shipping experiences.

What happened to damaged orders? Do we backers need to bear the loss?
NO! We will bear the losses, we will use our money to reprint the decks and fulfill the rest of the pledges.

We hope we've answered all your questios.

Please give us time till this weekend to response your enquiry. Our support team will try their best to get back to your enquiries asap.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:59 pm**

Damn, this campaign is getting straight up wacky. I just read the public update regarding fundraising via bonds. I've never seen a campaign get quite this loopy.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:20 pm**

So they only have enough for 180 pledges, and as noted, which pledges would they mean if they are of different sizes - leaving nearly 500 pledges that they need to raise money to fulfill - and the 180 they intend to fulfill first come first serve only to those that pay a decently large amount of extra shipping costs for?

Don’t know if I’m a believer that they are in a position to raise capital, meaning this is going to end badly - though they may be sincere I’m not sure they are realistic

If I were a backerkit buyer I would certainly be filling out the backerkit refund request, and in any case I would be trying to get a chargeback from my card company. If I could not get a refund I might have to try to be one of the 180 that pays to get their stuff (especially if I were in it for a large sum) - in the end it won’t help them fulfill, but if they are raising money to do so and have every intention of sending all backers their products I don’t imagine it could cause much injury to their effort at this point

If the business has an empty bank account the chargebacks will just have to live with their debt collectors, and the decks they don’t have to deliver will be ones they wont have to create or ship.

Backerkit is very different from kickstarter, as they have a decent refund policy - and since purchasing there for skymember outside of the campaign was sold as a “preorder” it is the same as purchasing an item on back order as far as I understand it. Which should mean they can’t charge and not ship, and cant hold the item in back order status without giving you a reasonable ship date - in such a case a chargeback should be allowed regardless of time passed.

Kickstarter backers are in more of a pickle, but it wouldn’t stop me from trying

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:34 pm**

i wrote off my reward as being scammed, these updates are ramblings of a mad man (or men), lesson learned: never put more than you can afford to lose in an amateur too-good-to-be-true campaign.
If my decks ever come to me either one or 10 years later, i will post video of me burning them up and put to the bin where they should be.

Posted: **Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:40 pm**

Tell you one thing, if they actually do manage to raise money (from outside the campaign backers) and ship decks before the years end I just might consider backing another campaign of theirs - as that will be an impressive feat of pure will to come through seldom seen…

But at the moment I wouldn’t bet $1 they will

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:50 am**

I don't think "scam" is the right word to describe it. But it is a pretty desperate hail mary attempt going on right now. On the one hand I can fully appreciate the desire to exhaust EVERYTHING to complete this project. But asking backers for an investment after the struggles of this campaign...it's just not likely to land.

In software development (and I'm sure other areas), there's a huge tendency when a project gets behind to assume that the rest of it will afford you the opportunity to catch up, so you don't report any sort of slip. In reality, once you get a little behind, you're MORE likely to fall further behind as you go. I think a similar thing is at play here. Skymember is looking for a lifeline and it's a bit of a longshot.

But like I said, I don't think scam is the right word. That implies an intention to take money and run. This seems to be born out of a DESIRE to do the right thing. I'm afraid it's just going to alienate more backers and - end of the day - either not solve the problem or potentially make it worse with the introduction of a NEW round of investors who can't be paid back.

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:18 am**

i meant "Scam" as the literal meaning of scam: to deceive others for your own good, as right now i am almost 100% believe that the project is already fully dead and the account is only further manipulated to get people give them more money.
Unless someone is crazy, no one would dare to go out and ask for further investment based on pure trust after themself trampling on it that badly, and for this team there isn't just one man, it's a whole group, no way a whole group of able brained people can look at a shitty idea like that and think it's okay.
My theory is that this is their nothing-to-lose final attempt to recoup what they lost/ make more gains before again dissapearing without anyone can do anything about them.
If anyone kind enough to belive in them and put a $ more into this stinky pile of beautiful promises and flowery words then god bless their naive heart and i wish them all the best in life to make up for what they put in the bowl.

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:24 am**

Not sure I agree - not that I would “invest” with them, but I don’t think they are looking to make a last cash grab. I also don’t think they are “able brained” in a way that will allow them to recover - but stranger things have happened

They seem like a bunch of artist who just left a bio-dome and think that they can get funding together to build a small town, raised by the beauty of their art and good intentions.

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:20 am**

Therefore we are sincerely looking for a trusted and experienced coordinator to supervise us and assist in message response. If you believe you are the right person or know any suitable candidates, please reach out to us via support@skymemberpresent.com

So... they expect the candidate to do it pro bono...?

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:50 am**

krystalie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:20 am

Therefore we are sincerely looking for a trusted and experienced coordinator to supervise us and assist in message response. If you believe you are the right person or know any suitable candidates, please reach out to us via support@skymemberpresent.com

So... they expect the candidate to do it pro bono...?

Pretty sure they dont have money to pay anyone

Posted: **Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:03 am**

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:28 pm Benchmark campaign does look like a good example of why someone should qualify for the blacklist - not just for delay and lack of communication, but for painting a fairly obvious picture of a person who is in no position financially to run a campaign.

They claim (for quite some time) that cards have been printed and that Gamblers Warehouse has them in storage - two claims that seem like the kind of thing that we should have (or develop) the resources to verify. It’s high time we pulled together contacts at the various printers and fulfillment houses to be able to confirm such things.

Should they be confirmed to be at GW I’m not sure that provides any avenue to getting them delivered, perhaps it might, but it would be nice to be able to determine the truth behind such claims in any case - if only to allow quicker action in the future when such claims are made. (Same for confirming projects going through the printing process).

As for Lou himself, it does not sound like there is much point in going after him in hopes of pressuring him to fix the issue, as it is obvious that like Vanda, they are in no condition to remedy their mistakes - perhaps after a great deal of time has passed they will do so, but currently only punitive action might be taken and I prefer to take action only where remedy might be achieved - especially in cases where it seems things have “fallen apart” - should an obvious scam be the case I would feel differently.

To this day…… well….. I don’t think Benchmark deck will ever happened…. Why did I backed this is in the first place…. What would I tell to my friend who joint pledge with me?

I saw him well lived in the other account - his personal one. I like to poke him there, but I don’t have the guts to do it

Posted: **Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:16 pm**

SOOOOO happy I cancelled my pledge last minute. Wish I'd had a similar train of thought for VXD and Monte Carlo.

Posted: **Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:20 am**

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:28 pm Benchmark campaign does look like a good example of why someone should qualify for the blacklist - not just for delay and lack of communication, but for painting a fairly obvious picture of a person who is in no position financially to run a campaign.

They claim (for quite some time) that cards have been printed and that Gamblers Warehouse has them in storage - two claims that seem like the kind of thing that we should have (or develop) the resources to verify. It’s high time we pulled together contacts at the various printers and fulfillment houses to be able to confirm such things.

Should they be confirmed to be at GW I’m not sure that provides any avenue to getting them delivered, perhaps it might, but it would be nice to be able to determine the truth behind such claims in any case - if only to allow quicker action in the future when such claims are made. (Same for confirming projects going through the printing process).

As for Lou himself, it does not sound like there is much point in going after him in hopes of pressuring him to fix the issue, as it is obvious that like Vanda, they are in no condition to remedy their mistakes - perhaps after a great deal of time has passed they will do so, but currently only punitive action might be taken and I prefer to take action only where remedy might be achieved - especially in cases where it seems things have “fallen apart” - should an obvious scam be the case I would feel differently.

Please contact sales@gamblerswarehouse.com
We would try to help backers receive their rewards although Lou has not paid more than half the amount for production of playing cards & boxes.

Posted: **Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:30 pm**

You can add the creator of Retro Wave and Todd Weatherhead of the FLWR decks to the list, lack of any updates or communication for some time now, not looking good.

Posted: **Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:58 am**

hsbc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:28 amWhat a mess

That's what I said over a year ago and jumped off the boat. Glad I did. Really sucks for the backers!

Posted: **Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:18 pm**

jerichoholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:30 pm You can add the creator of Retro Wave and Todd Weatherhead of the FLWR decks to the list, lack of any updates or communication for some time now, not looking good.

He actually updated the next day that the proofs were finally approved. I commented that it'll help if photos of these were posted so we could see that they exist in real life. Then today, he posted pics of the physical tucks. So this looks to have some life yet.

The first physical proofs!
Hello Everyone. While we did approve the digital proofs a couple weeks ago, today we received pictures of physical proofs of the tucks! They are in the mail and on the way to us. Take a look. cheers .

Again thank you to everyone who helped Johnny. He and is family are out of Ukraine and are currently refugees. They are safe from the war. Thank you for your support and patience.

Posted: **Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:15 am**

Eric Lee wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:18 pm
jerichoholic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:30 pm You can add the creator of Retro Wave and Todd Weatherhead of the FLWR decks to the list, lack of any updates or communication for some time now, not looking good.
He actually updated the next day that the proofs were finally approved. I commented that it'll help if photos of these were posted so we could see that they exist in real life. Then today, he posted pics of the physical tucks. So this looks to have some life yet.

The first physical proofs!
Hello Everyone. While we did approve the digital proofs a couple weeks ago, today we received pictures of physical proofs of the tucks! They are in the mail and on the way to us. Take a look. cheers .

Again thank you to everyone who helped Johnny. He and is family are out of Ukraine and are currently refugees. They are safe from the war. Thank you for your support and patience.

The artist that was working on it was in Ukraine also, trying to evacuate, and was just recently able to leave the country safely. I'm cutting this project a lot of slack.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:16 pm**

This isn't about playing cards, but is about one of my Kickstarter campaigns I pledged from....mid 2018 with an expected delivery in late 2018. This was for a spinning top that would be rechargable and could spin for several hours on a charge called Limbo. The challenges these folks had were crazy. Almost everyone had written this off years ago, but I held out hope. Anyway, today at LONG last I received my rewards. I am charging it up, but from comments I have read, it actually works great. Anyway, put that one down in the record books.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:32 pm**

Anyone know what is up with Deallez & Markt52 lately? They stopped posting stuff on IG a couple of months ago now and they are holding some KS projects hostage, like Retro Wave. Nobody seems to be able to get a hold of them, including Gamblers.

Posted: **Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:04 pm**

Bradius wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:16 pm This isn't about playing cards, but is about one of my Kickstarter campaigns I pledged from....mid 2018 with an expected delivery in late 2018. This was for a spinning top that would be rechargable and could spin for several hours on a charge called Limbo. The challenges these folks had were crazy. Almost everyone had written this off years ago, but I held out hope. Anyway, today at LONG last I received my rewards. I am charging it up, but from comments I have read, it actually works great. Anyway, put that one down in the record books.

A movie campaign I pledged for back in November 2013, my third ever Kickstarter campaign, is still ongoing. They massively underestimated the amount of work required, but managed to get additional funding to finish it. Then COVID struck, halting cinema screenings, and the distributor won't allow perks like DVDs, Blu-rays, or digital files released until it's has its cinema run. Fortunately, the distribution rights default back to the creators in May 2023 so we'll (hopefully) get our goodies after that.

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