UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

Didn't realize the Silk Rule jokers were inspired by the Dondorf Shakespeare deck too. Makes sense considering that's where the courts are inspired from.

I love that old decks are reimagined by modern designers but sometimes I think the word 'inspired' does not give enough credit to the original, after all the closest 'inspired' synonym would be 'influenced' and quite often the new decks are a lot more than simply influenced by the old deck. Sometimes it seems to me that reimagined, reworked or even reproduced are closer to the mark.

Uhhhh... I just got Qalif in the mail....and it came packed with about 14 explicit ads for escort services....what the hell.........

Haven't openend the deck yet to see it's condition, will do that later. Awkward package to receive at work though.

Edit: well, mystery solved, office prank, they somehow slipped them in without opening the package.

Hmm now the question is "Why do they think you are in need of an escort"
Do they see a nerdy card collector who needs to discover there is a lot more fun to be had with other 'corts'

Honeybee wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 3:39 pm Hmm now the question is "Why do they think you are in need of an escort"
Do they see a nerdy card collector who needs to discover there is a lot more fun to be had with other 'corts'

LOL Definitely not that. I'm in a long term relationship and while I'm definitely a geek, I don't look the part. I just work with a bunch of salesmen who behave like you'd expect salesmen to behave. 2 of them just got back from Vegas and thought it'd be funny. I laughed once I realized what happened. The package looked perfect so I was definitely doing a big WTF for a minute.

Evilgamer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:50 pm if you arent on his mailing list

Thursday 15 Feb at 10:00 pm UTC: 100 decks

Saturday 17 Feb at 01:00 pm UTC: 100 decks

The 3rd and last wave will be announced next week.

EDT is April 2024 and no other details will be revealed
until we ship all orders.

The deck costs €115, shipping included.

he said that patrons took 400 so Im guessing hes added the people who DM'd him today to yesterdays total.

Just a reminder on this because, well I'm feeling incredibly frustrated. We still haven't received the decks, plus I'm still waiting on year 2-4 rewards that were already paid for. That's well over €1000 worth of decks across 3+ years that I haven't received. I'm disgusted that it's somehow ok to keep promising and producing and selling other decks whilst still not delivering on what has already been PAID FOR!

Blah blah blah that's Lotrek. Well not for me any more.

Strag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:59 am Just a reminder on this because, well I'm feeling incredibly frustrated. We still haven't received the decks, plus I'm still waiting on year 2-4 rewards that were already paid for. That's well over €1000 worth of decks across 3+ years that I haven't received. I'm disgusted that it's somehow ok to keep promising and producing and selling other decks whilst still not delivering on what has already been PAID FOR!

Blah blah blah that's Lotrek. Well not for me any more.

You and me both; although I am only waiting for Year 2 rewards.

My sentiments exactly.

So I did finally open my Qalif and it does have issues. The previously mentioned "scratches" on some of the cards, but not all or even close to a majority. There is some issues on all the cards from the cutting process, some (Very) light scuffing along the top and the edges are all pretty roughish and also there's some "spotting" on some of the cards (that's the best I can describe it). The deck is still very beautiful, especially with the courts not being so dark, and I'm glad I got them in general. I'm still not a fan of the multi colored edges, but that's whatever, and I wish he had not reused courts for this. But mostly, at this price point, I don't expect those kind of issues, and his silence about the issues before shipping (and his response to it) still bothers me and likely will influence any future buying choices from him. As all of the issues are focused around the edges, I wish he had just stuck with the original colored card stock and not foiled the borders. If there weren't still another deck coming from this purchase I'd be more upset about it. Hopefully that one will be issue free.

Fragmenta was introduced to Patrons on Oct 3, 2024 and today it's on his IG account with the comment
"in few days"..
Is this "limited edition" for sale to the general public or are Patrons receiving a free copy?

Cheers,
KW

general public nearest I can tell

Exactly what I meant about producing new decks whilst other decks that have already been paid for not getting done.

Strag wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:26 am Exactly what I meant about producing new decks whilst other decks that have already been paid for not getting done.

If you're in the queue for foiling at your printer, and then you have the ability to print another deck with just CMYK ink at the same or another printer, would you hold off? Fragmenta is meant to be just ink and Lotrek has stressed how easy that is to print.

Strag wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:59 am I'm disgusted that it's somehow ok to keep promising and producing and selling other decks whilst still not delivering on what has already been PAID FOR!
Blah blah blah that's Lotrek. Well not for me any more.

Yes, exactly. That's me. I'm the guy who designs and prints those fuckin' crazy decks that are incredibly difficult to print and so awesome to look at and so mind blowing when executed correctly. And, I'm the guy who keeps printing and selling new decks while he hasn't delivered what he promised. And I will CONTINUE to do so. You know why? Because I need funds for the smurfing expensive reprints I am obliged to do in order to deliver the quality I promise. Do I always make it? Not always but almost. Sometimes I have to accept things, especially when I don't know what to do in order to fix a flaw. Like in Qalif. I took for granted what they told me: "The scratches cannot be avoided with that kind of artwork, no matter what we do". They have over 30 years of experience and I had to accept it. BUT IT WAS BS. Not because they wanted to fool me but because they never had complaints. The guys are printing luxury business cards, fashion catalogues and restaurant menus. Nobody ever complained about a scratch across the steak's price on the menu, so they did not have the motivation to solve that problem.

But I found the solution. Too late, because it was after the printing of QALIF was over. But now I know how to avoid the scratches. The guys were amazed but I did it not find the solution because I'm some kind of genius but because I HAD TO find a solution!

You are talking about Blah blah blah. I'm not mentioning even a fraction of what is going on. I don't do it because there are so many crazy details and issues happening all the time that if I start mentioning them,
1) I will be spending all my time writing updates and
2) I will sound like I'm making up incredible excuses for my delays.

But the truth is that hot foil printing on playing cards is THE MOST DIFFICULT SHIT IN THE WHOLE PRINTING INDUSTRY. PERIOD! That's why it's so expensive and -in my case- so time consuming. If I'm honest, I DON'T KNOW when I will deliver the rewards. And I don't know it because I DO NOT OWN the foiling workshop. They're not my employees, I'm just one of their clients. Today I was printing. I was supposed to had started a week ago. But they delayed me for one week. The best part? I was printing DAMASK 2. Another deck that will be probably sold at some point when you will be expecting the pending rewards. And, why on earth I started a new deck while I could print the promised stuff? Because my plate provider has no material to make plates. They say there is a shortage from the factory in Germany and they had to import metal on their own, which they are still waiting. Is that true? No idea. I believe yes. But what I know for sure is that I could not get my plates to print what I was supposed to print. So, in order not to completely lose my turn, I started DAMASK as I had 2 plates ready long ago, just in case. Will I finish DAMASK? Of course not. As soon as I get the plates I need, I will put DAMASK aside and start with MYSTERY III.

You want more blah blah?

Here it is: Today I got the cut (finished) decks for one of the two PATREON rewards for year 2. Lovely, but they will all go to the garbage. I found 3 or 4 cards that are faulty because of the plate. Nobody noticed it during the printing because we were focused as always on the registration and because I have gotten literally hundreds of plates from the same provider and they were all perfect. It's a tiny detail but when you fan the cards, they look ugly. Worse that the scratches in my opinion. (I will post a picture on PATREON). Note that this is the second time I am printing this deck. The first time, I had used a stock that proved completely unfit for the job although it was very beautiful. I scraped them all. This is the second complete print run that will be scrapped. I need to print for a third time. Who pays for the damage? Me. By selling other decks that are printed meanwhile in DIFFERENT printers. So, the idea that I'm putting out new decks instead of focusing on the ones you have paid for is not only unjust but also inaccurate. You must know that i have two main printers: One for CMYK (ink) printing and one for foil stamping. With the first, I can be EASILY printing one or more decks every week. Printing lasts a few hours, say a whole day if we face any issues (which happens) and cutting is done by a third company. So, while I'm waiting for my foiling workshop to become available to print a fraction of a deck during 2-3 days' work, I can at the same time flood the market with decks whose production won't delay the pending rewards even by a minute.

Some more blah blah?

QALIF: Someone mentioned the lack of response on my side. Here is my response: Ideally, I want to REPRINT QALIF and replace all the decks you got (faulty or not) with new ones, FOR FREE. I don't know if I can do it and how long will it take. In any case, the CMYK reprint has been already done! It's the first time I mention that. I DON'T PROMISE I will do it but I'm so pissed off by the fact that while almost everyone is stunned by the artwork, the discussion is about the scratches and the sides, that I will probably do it. And you know that I'm crazy enough to actually do it. The sheets are there, waiting. Just like the WHITE PATRONS that I promised to replace for free as well. Sheets are printed, foil is to be applied. When? I don't know. But they're already in the workshop.

That's why I will stop PATREON after September. I see that pending stuff tends to accumulate and I can't have this going on forever because -surprise- I'm not a scammer. I want to fulfill everything I owe you. But I want them to be the best quality possible.

I can perfectly understand someone who says: "Look dude, I just don't like waiting forever, it's not for me". I get that. But having people say that it's disgusting my selling of new, INK ONLY decks in order to shovel the money to the production of the numerous foil reprints that are necessary to reach a certain result, this is one of the very few things that can make me angry.

So. that's me and I will continue to do what I do, with the necessary blah blah blah. Why? Because WHAT I DO IS BEAUTIFUL, UNIQUE and I LOVE MY WORK.

Thank you for your time.

P.S.: Jeez, I sound like Donald bragging...

Thanks Lotrek, appreciate the thoughtful update. I can understand why some people might be frustrated with the delays but that’s what comes with being the perfectionist that you are. I think people lose sight of the fact that you are not obligated to reprint anything and you only do so because you want people to have the best version of the deck that you imagined.

I personally couldn’t care less how long it takes to get these rewards - I find these updates fascinating to learn about the complexity involved in creating complex hot foil decks.

You are an incredibly stand up person and you have been so gracious giving us lucky patrons free decks for years now, so it baffles me when people complain about that. Take as long as you need my friend, Damask 2.0 sounds amazing - can’t wait for that one. I think you need to run a KS to collect funds to support your acquisition of this printing press lol since that appears to be the common thread for delays (but you got to respect the queue process).

Just know there’s alot of us patrons who are life long supporters and don’t sweat the delays - believe me we get it - no one creates decks like so comparing you to others who release x amounts of deck each year without delays is not a fair benchmark. I wouldn’t be collecting cards if it weren’t for you so I hope you keep that passion to keep making masterpieces because the card community wouldn’t be the same without the . Don’t let some of these negative comments discourage you!

kevork wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 5:15 pm Didn't realize the Silk Rule jokers were inspired by the Dondorf Shakespeare deck too. Makes sense considering that's where the courts are inspired from.
20250302_133745.jpg
img_1_1740779575706.jpg
H4052-L326659089_original.jpg

I love the expression on the right hand Joker’s face with the donkey singing

Easy solution for people concerned about scratches… Buy two decks, replace the scratched cards from one deck with the perfect cards from the other deck, now you have two decks, one that's perfect, one with a few cards with scratches. Then sell the deck with scratches, likely for more than you purchased, and you're all set!

Personally, the scratches don't bother me that much, I only notice them on a couple cards and only when holding the cards at a certain angle that catches the light just right. The cards are awesome.

mulrich wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:00 pm Easy solution for people concerned about scratches… Buy two decks, replace the scratched cards from one deck with the perfect cards from the other deck, now you have two decks, one that's perfect, one with a few cards with scratches. Then sell the deck with scratches, likely for more than you purchased, and you're all set!

Personally, the scratches don't bother me that much, I only notice them on a couple cards and only when holding the cards at a certain angle that catches the light just right. The cards are awesome.

I actually wonder if that even 100% works, since there are 2 stocks involved I have to imagine that there are two versions of every card, 1 printed on each stock.

Qalif arrived for me a couple days ago. I think it's a lovely deck. The one I opened had 2 cards with a more notable folding issue at the top (like the pics shared), but it doesnt bother me. Personally, I find the different stock creating the bands kinda cool for this deck and I absolutely love the tuck. Im happy with it.

Ater reading lotrek's post, I just like to chime in to say I hope lotrek is mentally okay through all of this. Just because it's been joked around that he's a madman or something doesn't mean he's mentally invulnerable. Yes, he dugged his own rabbithole to climb out of, but I hope he have adequate personal support in all of this.

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 4:38 pm Ater reading lotrek's post, I just like to chime in to say I hope lotrek is mentally okay through all of this

Absolutely. Now that I know how difficult is -by definition- what I do, I have also accepted that obstacles are part of the job and I'm okay with that. It gets exhausting at times but only physically (after 12 or more hours at the printer's). Never mentally. As I said, I love what I do so all difficulties are welcome. Plus it's incredibly rewarding when you see your vision coming true. Save the scratches...

Leachy19 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 2:06 pm Thanks Lotrek, appreciate the thoughtful update. I can understand why some people might be frustrated with the delays but that’s what comes with being the perfectionist that you are. I think people lose sight of the fact that you are not obligated to reprint anything and you only do so because you want people to have the best version of the deck that you imagined.

Thank you for your words, Jonathan! I am obliged by myself to reprint when something is not exactly (or very close to) what I had in mind. Funny thing is that sometimes when I see rejected print runs after a few months, I don't understand why I was so upset. FRAGMENTA is an example. I did 3 print runs. The second one had a -mysteriously- J missing from the Jack of Hearts so we take this out. The first one was great but I decided that I wanted to make some changes. The 3rd one that will be sold in a few days is exactly what I wanted it to be but when I compare it to the first one, I like the first too. I mean that there was no real reason (flaws or anything like that) to reprint other than my obsession. I changed the colors on the 3rd print but the first one is still totally fine.

Don't forget the varnish issues, or the .... issues. It has to be frustrating at times. That said, it is always fun to get a package from you to see what you have next created. When anyone goes back to Venexiana Gold, they can see how much progress you have made with hot foil on playing cards. It is a different universe. Just in this last deck I could see so much progress from Arabesque in your production development and style.

I will admit that I am among those early, frustrated patrons. I have avoided engaging as I didn't think publicly voicing those frustrations would be of any help, other than to add fuel.

That being said, Lotrek's lengthy response definitely helps explain the delays and challenges he has faced. It puts things into a new light and I appreciate the look under the hood. Am I still frustrated that a dozen decks were released before fulfilling Year 1? A bit. Am I still frustrated that number will continue to climb before Year 2 is delivered? A bit. But Lotrek's explanation certainly helps clarify things. I will continue to not-so-patiently wait for Year 2 and Mystery III to be delivered

One final comment here for Lotrek: your response is exactly the kind of transparent, thoughtful, vulnerable response that could have done miracles for frustrated supporters months, or even years ago. I completely understand that updates take time, but I do believe some of the abuse could have been avoided had you shared this insight sooner. While it was late, I do certainly appreciate the update!

And I have spared the forum from my reiterative “only thing that would bother me is Lotrek not being Lotrek” - I appreciate the artistic process and the obsession

If there’s one thing I’m willing to wait for as long as it takes, it’s a Lotrek deck.

JazzBaloo wrote:Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:59 pm I say it was a low class passive aggressive move to post the happenings here as a patreon update

I'm keen on trusting his explicitly stated intention, "Many people found it enlightening regarding my notorious delays and I thought it would be useful to post it here, too. " He also provided context to his reply by copying Strag's comment.

JazzBaloo wrote:Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:59 pm I think he could get the same points across without it.

Fair enough.

kevork wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:41 pm

JazzBaloo wrote:Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:59 pm I say it was a low class passive aggressive move to post the happenings here as a patreon update

I'm keen on trusting his explicitly stated intention, "Many people found it enlightening regarding my notorious delays and I thought it would be useful to post it here, too. " He also provided context to his reply by copying Strag's comment.

JazzBaloo wrote:Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:59 pm I think he could get the same points across without it.

Fair enough.

I had already deleted the comment before this reply came through... you're quick like a bunny. I just thought that he could have told any story about delays that didn't have to involve the huff puff here. I saw it as a "put on blast while rallying the troops" move.
Feel the shame Strags lol jk. I think it's fair enough to assume that the comment really irked him.

kevork wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 6:41 pm

JazzBaloo wrote:Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:59 pm I say it was a low class passive aggressive move to post the happenings here as a patreon update

I'm keen on trusting his explicitly stated intention, "Many people found it enlightening regarding my notorious delays and I thought it would be useful to post it here, too. " He also provided context to his reply by copying Strag's comment.

Actually he only quoted a part of my comment, which I do think means the complete context is not given.

He quoted:

I'm disgusted that it's somehow ok to keep promising and producing and selling other decks whilst still not delivering on what has already been PAID FOR!
Blah blah blah that's Lotrek. Well not for me any more.

However I wrote:

Just a reminder on this because, well I'm feeling incredibly frustrated. We still haven't received the decks, plus I'm still waiting on year 2-4 rewards that were already paid for. That's well over €1000 worth of decks across 3+ years that I haven't received. I'm disgusted that it's somehow ok to keep promising and producing and selling other decks whilst still not delivering on what has already been PAID FOR!

Blah blah blah that's Lotrek. Well not for me any more.

It may be nuanced but I do feel if you are going to quote me on a different platform it's useful to include the complete quote.

Doesn’t really change anything, not that it matters.

Genuinely curious, does his response sufficiently answer your frustration and disgust?