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akicer wrote:

It is really about the math - I do love the designs, and I want to see them funded, but I can't justify asking people to shell out $15/deck when I can print the same design at a slightly lower quality for $10/deck.

Man I'm actually willing to pay $15 for this design if printing with a higher quality lol

Me three.

The only deck I have from WJPC is my Bharata Series 2 and I just can't see how you can classify it as a bad quality deck. So if the future decks by WJPC have the same quality as that one, all this talk about the need to upgrade to better quality printers is just complete rubbish.

Räpylätassu wrote:The only deck I have from WJPC is my Bharata Series 2 and I just can't see how you can classify it as a bad quality deck. So if the future decks by WJPC have the same quality as that one, all this talk about the need to upgrade to better quality printers is just complete rubbish.

Hey, Roope, you make a good point: if you were to only base your evaluation of WJPC on the Bharata Series 2 deck, you might not find yourself shying away from WJPC. However, some of us do have other decks of theirs (including Ben's recent Elephant decks), and the results are not entirely consistent. I wrote at length about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11455&p=134526&hili ... 6a#p134520

Of course, your mileage may vary (to borrow an old slogan). I continue to want only the best for Ben and, separately, for WJPC, but at this point, I need to see some improved consistency with WJPC projects before I can feel comfortable backing a project that they are printing.

I think the idea of making USPCC or Cartamundi or LPCC printing a stretch goal is an excellent idea.

vasta41 wrote:You funded the decks in 2 days- have some more faith in yourself! These cards deserve to be printed by a better co. What about a stretch goal for a better co.? You've made no further mention of that so is it out the window? If so I would hate to have to drop my pledge.

So this is moving along quite nicely- any word on a printer upgrade??

vasta41 wrote:So this is moving along quite nicely- any word on a printer upgrade??

I think we both know that "potential" upgrades to a different printer almost never actually happen. The problem now for Ben is that he's sold a whole pile of $10 decks. At what level of sales does it make financial sense to swap printers - where a USPCC (or EPCC/LPCC) comes in at a similar price? Most likely - without 'Mint 2' levels of success - it never will.

My practice is simply to not back the deck - no matter how much I might like it - until the new printer has been confirmed. Yes, this means the project gets less money than it might have got with a better printer - and ultimately may not fund, but that is the creators choice.

Gareth wrote:

vasta41 wrote:So this is moving along quite nicely- any word on a printer upgrade??

I think we both know that "potential" upgrades to a different printer almost never actually happen. The problem now for Ben is that he's sold a whole pile of $10 decks. At what level of sales does it make financial sense to swap printers - where a USPCC (or EPCC/LPCC) comes in at a similar price? Most likely - without 'Mint 2' levels of success - it never will.

My practice is simply to not back the deck - no matter how much I might like it - until the new printer has been confirmed. Yes, this means the project gets less money than it might have got with a better printer - and ultimately may not fund, but that is the creators choice.

That's usually my practice too- this is the first time I've done that. Cartamundi would suffice and I can't imagine they're too much more. But I agree, I don't think the printer will change. Since I have an EB I want to wait for confirmation before I drop my pledge.

I would easily back these if they were printed by Cartamundi or USPCC. I just don't have faith that WJPC will do them justice. Imagine these court cards with the metallic inks that USPCC used on Mr. Meroni's Eva decks...

Gareth wrote:

vasta41 wrote:So this is moving along quite nicely- any word on a printer upgrade??

I think we both know that "potential" upgrades to a different printer almost never actually happen. The problem now for Ben is that he's sold a whole pile of $10 decks. At what level of sales does it make financial sense to swap printers - where a USPCC (or EPCC/LPCC) comes in at a similar price? Most likely - without 'Mint 2' levels of success - it never will.

My practice is simply to not back the deck - no matter how much I might like it - until the new printer has been confirmed. Yes, this means the project gets less money than it might have got with a better printer - and ultimately may not fund, but that is the creators choice.

Sorry for the delayed response - I have been offline with internet problems for the last few days. It's incredibly frustrating knowing you have emails/messages that need attention and can't get to them...

I'll be posting an update about the printer stretch goal tomorrow, I am planning on Cartimundi. I don't expect that the price will be the same - it will probably be a bit more expensive. However, if we hit that goal then the volume of the order will offset a chunk of the price increase. As I mentioned before, I am not doing this for a huge payday - it really is a labour of love and exciting to get a project made. I think there must be only a handful of people making real money off cards, but I am not going for that which is why I can offer $10 decks if it ends up a bit negative with the new printer, I am sure that I can balance it out with wholesalers or the slow after-market sales.

Fud wrote:

Gareth wrote:

vasta41 wrote:So this is moving along quite nicely- any word on a printer upgrade??

I think we both know that "potential" upgrades to a different printer almost never actually happen. The problem now for Ben is that he's sold a whole pile of $10 decks. At what level of sales does it make financial sense to swap printers - where a USPCC (or EPCC/LPCC) comes in at a similar price? Most likely - without 'Mint 2' levels of success - it never will.

My practice is simply to not back the deck - no matter how much I might like it - until the new printer has been confirmed. Yes, this means the project gets less money than it might have got with a better printer - and ultimately may not fund, but that is the creators choice.

Sorry for the delayed response - I have been offline with internet problems for the last few days. It's incredibly frustrating knowing you have emails/messages that need attention and can't get to them...

I'll be posting an update about the printer stretch goal tomorrow, I am planning on Cartimundi. I don't expect that the price will be the same - it will probably be a bit more expensive. However, if we hit that goal then the volume of the order will offset a chunk of the price increase. As I mentioned before, I am not doing this for a huge payday - it really is a labour of love and exciting to get a project made. I think there must be only a handful of people making real money off cards, but I am not going for that which is why I can offer $10 decks if it ends up a bit negative with the new printer, I am sure that I can balance it out with wholesalers or the slow after-market sales.

I am very happy to hear this news and hope it works out! I appreciate you going through all this but I really think you owe it to these cards- it's quite a nice deck you've created and they deserve a better printer. Make sure you advertise the hell our of the printer change because I imagine the pledges will increase because of it.

Hi,
The decks are interesting. The truth is I have not decided for myself whether I will boost.

Thedissident001 wrote:I think embossing would benefit the heck out of this tuck.

Without a doubt )))

6 days to go and about $3,400USD to get the printer upgrade- so close!!

Looks like these are already for sale on amazon... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JB87F4Q/ ... hCbBPCF1EJ

PipChick wrote:Looks like these are already for sale on amazon... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JB87F4Q/ ... hCbBPCF1EJ

Not worth 35 £...

Ben / Elephant PC has a store on Amazon. That's probably why you see it there already. Still, it woulda been nice if it had been sent out first.

Edit: Ben updated on KS on a shipping delay, which explains things -

Hi Everyone,
I wanted to give you a quick update - as I noted on the 15th, the decks are in the warehouse. I sent the shipping order immediately, and to my knowledge nothing has been sent out yet. I have been sending reminders/queries every other day to see when they expect to get it out, but I have had virtually no response.
long story short - the decks are in the warehouse, and for whatever reason, they are not sending them out.
I'll keep on them and try and get a speedy resolution to this issue.
Sorry for the delay, I'm doing my best to get it sorted!

He started selling on his Amazon storefront as he had assumed backers would have gotten their decks by then.

I've received both decks today.

It seems there have been some problems with some 1+1 Early Birds with people receiving just the Gold version but it's being resolved.

My pledge was also a 1+1 early bird and I've received both versions (so it doesn't affect all the 1 of each early birds).

The Royal deck is very good, the box is gorgeous, I'll take some pictures in the next few days.

Here are the photos:

Sorry for the 3 posts but there is a limit of 4 to the number of attachments

Thanks for the photos! The gold foil really pops on the tuck! How is the handling and does it fan well with all the glided edge and foil?

No

The stock is good, but the gilding doesn't allow it to fan well.

The other version (the gold one) is perfectly "fanable".
I'm not good at fanning, but I can get an half decent fan out of it. I think that someone who can fan a regular bicycle deck won't have problems getting a fan with this one.

It's not as slippery as USPCC or Cartamundi, but it is a good deck.

I was one of the backers who didn't receive both decks at the same time but I got the Royal Ed. in the mail a few days ago so all is well. But I have to share something I've noticed in the past two WJPC decks I've received. And that is the concave bow of the tuck. Both my Elephant deck and this one have a pretty noticeable dip in the front of the tuck which almost cheapens an otherwise beautiful tuck case. I'm no expert but I believe this to be the result of incorrect dimensions. I don't open my decks but if I shake a USPCC deck up and down I can hear the cards moving slightly back and forth in the case. If I do the same to a WJPC deck I hear nothing. So maybe they should increase the dimensions ever so slightly?
Another noticeable feature of the two WJPC decks I have is the cellophane. That is also so tightly wrapped around the tuck that you couldn't squeeze a fart in there. It's so tight it's almost as if it were shrink wrapped. I'm not sure whether or not that is causing the concave dip in the tuck but it's certainty not helping it.
Overall I'm pleased with my purchases and I enjoy the theme and artwork very much. But I'm going to think twice before pledging for another deck of WJPC cards and if I see some I really like I might wait until the aftermarket assuming the tuck isn't concave.

vasta41 wrote:I was one of the backers who didn't receive both decks at the same time but I got the Royal Ed. in the mail a few days ago so all is well. But I have to share something I've noticed in the past two WJPC decks I've received. And that is the concave bow of the tuck. Both my Elephant deck and this one have a pretty noticeable dip in the front of the tuck which almost cheapens an otherwise beautiful tuck case. I'm no expert but I believe this to be the result of incorrect dimensions. I don't open my decks but if I shake a USPCC deck up and down I can hear the cards moving slightly back and forth in the case. If I do the same to a WJPC deck I hear nothing. So maybe they should increase the dimensions ever so slightly?
Another noticeable feature of the two WJPC decks I have is the cellophane. That is also so tightly wrapped around the tuck that you couldn't squeeze a fart in there. It's so tight it's almost as if it were shrink wrapped. I'm not sure whether or not that is causing the concave dip in the tuck but it's certainty not helping it.
Overall I'm pleased with my purchases and I enjoy the theme and artwork very much. But I'm going to think twice before pledging for another deck of WJPC cards and if I see some I really like I might wait until the aftermarket assuming the tuck isn't concave.

vasta41 wrote:I was one of the backers who didn't receive both decks at the same time but I got the Royal Ed. in the mail a few days ago so all is well. But I have to share something I've noticed in the past two WJPC decks I've received. And that is the concave bow of the tuck. Both my Elephant deck and this one have a pretty noticeable dip in the front of the tuck which almost cheapens an otherwise beautiful tuck case. I'm no expert but I believe this to be the result of incorrect dimensions. I don't open my decks but if I shake a USPCC deck up and down I can hear the cards moving slightly back and forth in the case. If I do the same to a WJPC deck I hear nothing. So maybe they should increase the dimensions ever so slightly?
Another noticeable feature of the two WJPC decks I have is the cellophane. That is also so tightly wrapped around the tuck that you couldn't squeeze a fart in there. It's so tight it's almost as if it were shrink wrapped. I'm not sure whether or not that is causing the concave dip in the tuck but it's certainty not helping it.
Overall I'm pleased with my purchases and I enjoy the theme and artwork very much. But I'm going to think twice before pledging for another deck of WJPC cards and if I see some I really like I might wait until the aftermarket assuming the tuck isn't concave.

@Vasta41 - Here you go.

The Vasta Shake Test



Luckily, Kalevala Limited and Bharata v2 (both by WJPC) passed the test with flying colors. The first deck (Kalevala Original) is done by USPCC. So, there could be some issue with the Elephant PC's files if we just take your above comment into account. It is a non-issue to me and many more for sure.

On the Cellophane front, it is heat shrinking which is another step added to the process. USPCC doesn't ask this but Legends and other leading printers who care about the customer choice ask this in their custom deck request forum.

Here is the one from Legends.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... A/viewform" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now, let me tell you the difference between the above WJPC & USPCC tuckboxes shown in the video. USPCC tuck paper is thin, can get battered easily. I asked USPCC if they can improve the tuck stock to be used for Kalevala deck for additional money but they said that they can't. I got WJPC to use a very sturdy and durable card stock for the tuckbox & anyone who holds both will feel the difference.

I printed decks with WJPC, USPCC, and Cartamundi. WJPC standard boxes are the best! I like USPCC wrapping but prefer WJPC heat shrinking. Cartamundi uses heat, but I don't understand why the result is not consistent. The best Cartamundi wrapping can be found on their Copag 310 (same quality as WJPC). Some other decks are too loose for heat shrinking to my taste. BTW Cobra deck wrapping is different, but I have a couple of decks with big heat holes in cellophane on the front.

UPDATE: I think they shrink wrapped Cobra bricks that's why I got two bricks (from MM) with two heat damaged decks. I hope they don't shrink wrap bricks now.

vasta41 wrote:I was one of the backers who didn't receive both decks at the same time but I got the Royal Ed. in the mail a few days ago so all is well. But I have to share something I've noticed in the past two WJPC decks I've received. And that is the concave bow of the tuck. Both my Elephant deck and this one have a pretty noticeable dip in the front of the tuck which almost cheapens an otherwise beautiful tuck case. I'm no expert but I believe this to be the result of incorrect dimensions. I don't open my decks but if I shake a USPCC deck up and down I can hear the cards moving slightly back and forth in the case. If I do the same to a WJPC deck I hear nothing. So maybe they should increase the dimensions ever so slightly?
Another noticeable feature of the two WJPC decks I have is the cellophane. That is also so tightly wrapped around the tuck that you couldn't squeeze a fart in there. It's so tight it's almost as if it were shrink wrapped. I'm not sure whether or not that is causing the concave dip in the tuck but it's certainty not helping it.
Overall I'm pleased with my purchases and I enjoy the theme and artwork very much. But I'm going to think twice before pledging for another deck of WJPC cards and if I see some I really like I might wait until the aftermarket assuming the tuck isn't concave.

Hi Vasta,
You have hit on a problem I have had with not just WJPC, but also LPCC and EPCC. I must have 50 sample decks at home from all different manufacturers, and there are always varying degrees of tightness to the boxes. One of my earlier decks was so tightly squeezed into the box that I found it difficult to take out the cards without creasing the tuck, and then getting them back in was a nightmare as well. To compensate, I have been progressively trying to get the box just right – enough room to slip the cards in and out, but not so loose that you get the bowing effect.
In theory, you should see more ‘bowing’ on the KS version of the elephant cards as the box was 1mm wider. I tried that dimension then, found it was too large and compensated for the Medieval. It looks like that is a bit too big again, and so I’ll test another mm tighter on the next print run.
It is difficult as these seem to vary between printers (folding process?), as well as between materials (matt vs shiny finish affects bend radius).
While the final product may be a bit loose, it is honestly so rewarding to test and refine these decks to get the exact right result, hopefully they are still good enough to use in the meantime though!

Bump. Just making room for some good cards and decided to have a look at what UC had to say about this Elephant series.
The 'elephant in the room' was clearly stock/handling
The feel of these decks is SO BAD it cancels out any appreciation of the artwork

I'll just say that I was let down by the Royal version compared to the pics/videos teasing the deck.