TRIORA PLAYING & TAROT CARDS - FUNDED!!!10 DAYS REMAIN!

[Magic Tapp]

I clarify my situation, i cannot offer refund, i send the decks regulary and then AFTER EVALUATE i refund one people

Now this makes sense to me. I assumed something was lost in translation and it was. I didn't want to jump to conclusions which is why I asked you to further explain.

Your old project is being brought up because potential backers of this current project have the right to know that it's possible that significant details of the project could change after it's over and that you will show no remorse.

and i refuse to refund the 2 PEOPLE THAT SAY HARD INSULT TO ME!

I HAVE NEVER ONCE INSULTED YOU despite your best efforts to say that I have. You continue to lump me in with someone else or other people and I would appreciate if you would stop doing that. I refuse to revisit this argument again, I just wanted clarification to your above statement which I received.

P.S. You want a MOD to intervene? Well I have by handling the Enuma situation with dignity and professionalism, unlike yourself, and by letting you carry on here again (until I thought you said something inaccurate) without getting involved.

Paul - it seems that I am the other backer that he refused to refund. As a result, I got the crappy NPCC decks that I will be selling at the first opportunity. The fact that he is refusing to even acknowledge that he is in the wrong here is baffling, even more so than his childish reaction to our comments.

Claude - delivering on your campaign is not an accomplishment that you should be commended on - it is merely your obligation to the backers, nothing more, nothing less. You need to understand that the bait and switch that you pulled is bad form - find some humility and apologise.

[akicer]

I got the refund. If I was counted in the three people who asked for refund, I did not get the deck to evaluate and then get the refund. I get the refund because I called my credit car company. And I'm so glad I did that instead of waiting for the promised refund from Nemisis (which seems like not happening)

To the creator, we don't need to evaluate the product at all if we want a refund, and if I remember it right you said you are going to refund whoever asked for it, but now you are saying you did not refund two guys who insulted you. That is inconsistency and that does look fishy to me.

I don't think anyone of us need to discuss this issue more with the creator, we just have different mind set. And with his mind set like that, I truly think people should think twice before backing the projects.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

nice akicer, so you have bought a Legends products not a Nemesis Product, so...if Legends put a pile of s..t in the back of our cards...YOU BUY, because is Legends, if a designer create a historical project after studyng & working over 1 year, you call you card company for scream!!!!fortunately I and over 300 peoples are different from you! nice move man!

[akicer]

nice akicer, so you have bought a Legends products not a Nemesis Product, so...if Legends put a pile of s..t in the back of our cards...YOU BUY, because is Legends, if a designer create a historical project after studyng & working over 1 year, you call you card company for scream!!!!fortunately I and over 300 peoples are different from you! nice move man!

1. I do not buy because of LPCC
2. I cancel because you switch to NPCC without notification
3. yes if the deck is NPCC at the very beginning I won't buy, the art is good but not good enough for me to pull the trigger. This is not insulting, just a fact of personal view about art
3. I do not scream to my card company. Quite the opposite, I told them, politely, that I'm not getting the product I paid for so I want to get a refund
4. I can't care less about other people being different from me
5. Your response looks disorganized and with no logic.
- I do not buy LPCC decks blindly
- I don't care about how long it takes you to work on a deck, I evaluate myself whether I want to pay for the product
- Good luck with the 300 backers, if you want to convince me that I'm wrong because of there are 300 people backed the project, sorry that attempt failed

[Magic Tapp]

if a designer create a historical project after studyng & working over 1 year

Huh? A historical project? You have designed an ok deck and printed it with a lousy printer. Really, it would not hurt to learn to be humble - then again, you are clearly incapable of getting over yourself.

[OVSUB]

Reading the KS creator's responses on this thread really make me want to rescind my pledge. They look nice and I'm giving him/her a chance but it seems like they're way too aggressive. I hope NemesisFactoryCards will read this and realize how they come off like to a new backer.

I understand having pride and joy in both your works and creations but lashing out at people giving feedback seems like a weak/low thing to do. All you need to do is just accept that there are people who had bad-worse experiences and promise that you will do better(you also have to deliver on those promises).

[MSimonart]

I have to agree with ovsub, we undersaznd your enthusiasm and ccommitment to tour work, and indeed when you try to do everything good it is frustrating to hear negative feedback, but man, you are a brand and you are selling a product, your main conconcern when communicating should be to always tell a calm and assertive story. When you are trying something new in your life it's harder to be 100% confident over it. But once you decide to bring it out and sell it your confidence should emmanate at all times from the product you created to the communication you make of it. Never try to convince your clients with words, we don't pay for words, we pay for someone who will go to the next mile to bring something worthy for the money we paid. Because what happened right now is not only did you not convince the negative feedbackers to try and buy with you again, you showed your rather think of your emotions than to think of a solution for those not content, and really this hurts your chances of getting new customers or retaining your existent customer base. And I understand you're not a native speaker and this can get frustrating for yourself, but saying 'I'll refund' or 'What about a free deck on your next purchase' or whatever solution you want to find is much easier to say than to try and explain how you feel. No one cares that you make mistakes, it's how you handle thel and handle other problems that makes the difference. But still, it is concerning that, in a community where the printer is the number 1 aspect of a custom deck, you took the change in printer so lightly. Maybe for you it isn't, but know your market before bringing somethibg out. Anyway this discussion had settled so I don't want to start it over again, and really I'm not here to judge you creator and I don't have the pretention to help you either, just try to think of what people need and want and what they pay for and that storytelling, communication and your eagerness to please your customers is as important as the product

[Jocu]

Buongiorno ragazzi!

I wanted to offer a couple of thoughts on something that jumped out at me. I find one of the paragraphs troubling, and you might like to rephrase it.

"Sabbath is certainly an important event for witches, in Sabbath Witches dance with the devil, perform rites and sacrifices in his honor, mate with each other and feast on the remains of their victims. In the backs of Triora decks we wanted to represent this moment, inspired by old engravings of the XVI century."

So this paragraph is based on what mainstream society believed witches were up to, but there's no real evidence for it - hence the term witch hunt. Maybe some did, maybe some didn't. However the community you're trying to reach with the tarot and lenormand decks are very sensitive about these misrepresentation of their interests, beliefs, and practices. (the devil, for example, is a Christian invention and modern wiccans or pagans don't even believe in his existence, let alone worship him in satanic rites).

We did a lot of research on this with our last deck and want to explore tarot decks in the future, so I'd recommend altering the wording of this section to show that this is what people were accused of doing rather than suggesting it's what they did or do today. At least to not risk alienating a big section of your potential backers.

Good luck - I hope you stick with the printer you're promised and don't switch as this community doesn't forget. They are also very particular about quality and the creators' opinion on such things doesn't really matter because they're ultimately the ones going to use the cards.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Threads like these are invaluable to potential new backers. Part of the value that UC adds to the hobby.

I would never support this creator. Reminds me of SVI and Bill Davis.

[ChuckRambo]

Threads like these are invaluable to potential new backers. Part of the value that UC adds to the hobby.

I would never support this creator. Reminds me of SVI and Bill Davis.

Agreed.

I would never support any vendor who demonstrates contempt for the consumer. Reminds me of the fraternity initiation scene from the movie, "Animal House"

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Reading the KS creator's responses on this thread really make me want to rescind my pledge. They look nice and I'm giving him/her a chance but it seems like they're way too aggressive. I hope NemesisFactoryCards will read this and realize how they come off like to a new backer.

I understand having pride and joy in both your works and creations but lashing out at people giving feedback seems like a weak/low thing to do. All you need to do is just accept that there are people who had bad-worse experiences and promise that you will do better(you also have to deliver on those promises).

I'm sorry OVSUB, im very sorry for your canceled but trust me i dont want to be aggressive, just a little angry because im honest and hear some words that i read here, hurts me.
Hope you change your idea and sorry if I seemed what I am not, and sorry for my bad english, many times i have difficulty expressing my thoughts.
claude

[NemesisFactoryCards]

I have to agree with ovsub, we undersaznd your enthusiasm and ccommitment to tour work, and indeed when you try to do everything good it is frustrating to hear negative feedback, but man, you are a brand and you are selling a product, your main conconcern when communicating should be to always tell a calm and assertive story. When you are trying something new in your life it's harder to be 100% confident over it. But once you decide to bring it out and sell it your confidence should emmanate at all times from the product you created to the communication you make of it. Never try to convince your clients with words, we don't pay for words, we pay for someone who will go to the next mile to bring something worthy for the money we paid. Because what happened right now is not only did you not convince the negative feedbackers to try and buy with you again, you showed your rather think of your emotions than to think of a solution for those not content, and really this hurts your chances of getting new customers or retaining your existent customer base. And I understand you're not a native speaker and this can get frustrating for yourself, but saying 'I'll refund' or 'What about a free deck on your next purchase' or whatever solution you want to find is much easier to say than to try and explain how you feel. No one cares that you make mistakes, it's how you handle thel and handle other problems that makes the difference. But still, it is concerning that, in a community where the printer is the number 1 aspect of a custom deck, you took the change in printer so lightly. Maybe for you it isn't, but know your market before bringing somethibg out. Anyway this discussion had settled so I don't want to start it over again, and really I'm not here to judge you creator and I don't have the pretention to help you either, just try to think of what people need and want and what they pay for and that storytelling, communication and your eagerness to please your customers is as important as the product

Hey MSImon Art, thank for your words, i explain many times in the past that Enuma was my first project, i dont image that changed printer cause this problems, but trust to me i not have chance, because Legends was clear to me about production time. I want only demonstrate to my backer that my work deserves to be seen, before judgment, but this 3 backers not give to me any chance, they want a Legends product i suppose. Trust to me i send to all the decks, and one of this respond to me "i dont want this s..t deck"..sorry i cannot accept insult to me and my work, i refund one people that say to me that i had appreciated my artwork but he collected only legends decks, so i send my decks to him and refund him, im totally in good faith...maybe neophite yes but honest. and trust to me my friend, read some people now who try to denigrated my work and try to influencer all UC members it's really unfair, I don't think I deserve this.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Threads like these are invaluable to potential new backers. Part of the value that UC adds to the hobby.

I would never support this creator. Reminds me of SVI and Bill Davis.

Sorry for read this words, hope i can change your idea in the future, I didn't do anything to deserve it

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Threads like these are invaluable to potential new backers. Part of the value that UC adds to the hobby.

I would never support this creator. Reminds me of SVI and Bill Davis.

Agreed.

I would never support any vendor who demonstrates contempt for the consumer. Reminds me of the fraternity initiation scene from the movie, "Animal House"

I think you are exaggerating, I have never shown contempt for the consumer, my job has been called shit, and I have been called a crook, I am a father of 4 sons, I know what honesty and healthy principles mean. I'm sorry if you will not support my projects, I repeat what I have written to others I hope you can change your mind in the future, perhaps listening to the other 316 Enuma backers who have been happy and have filled me with good feedback, but obviously you first listen to the people who only know how to insult and denigrate

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Buongiorno ragazzi!

I wanted to offer a couple of thoughts on something that jumped out at me. I find one of the paragraphs troubling, and you might like to rephrase it.

"Sabbath is certainly an important event for witches, in Sabbath Witches dance with the devil, perform rites and sacrifices in his honor, mate with each other and feast on the remains of their victims. In the backs of Triora decks we wanted to represent this moment, inspired by old engravings of the XVI century."

So this paragraph is based on what mainstream society believed witches were up to, but there's no real evidence for it - hence the term witch hunt. Maybe some did, maybe some didn't. However the community you're trying to reach with the tarot and lenormand decks are very sensitive about these misrepresentation of their interests, beliefs, and practices. (the devil, for example, is a Christian invention and modern wiccans or pagans don't even believe in his existence, let alone worship him in satanic rites).

We did a lot of research on this with our last deck and want to explore tarot decks in the future, so I'd recommend altering the wording of this section to show that this is what people were accused of doing rather than suggesting it's what they did or do today. At least to not risk alienating a big section of your potential backers.

Good luck - I hope you stick with the printer you're promised and don't switch as this community doesn't forget. They are also very particular about quality and the creators' opinion on such things doesn't really matter because they're ultimately the ones going to use the cards.

Hi Jocu, I see that you are Italian too, thank you for your feedback, but I am not telling the story of the world witch hunt, let alone I am talking about Wicca or other beliefs, I am telling the story of Triora and in the latter 5 years I have done nothing but study, document and talk to people, especially with professors and teachers of esotericism and parapsychology

IT IS NOT THE STORY OF THE WITCHWORK IN GENERAL, BUT IT IS THE STORY OF TRIORA.
I am not creating any confusion, I am simply telling something you may not know.

It is clearly written in the explanation, and in the history of Triora the Devil is a predominant figure, Cerberus the guardian of the underworld is present in the coat of arms this should make you understand how much this figure is present in their beliefs
Having said that, I wish you luck in your future tarot work and in-depth studies.
Thanks for your advice you are absolutely right, the end buyer is always right, in fact I have always acted for the sake of my backers and will always continue to do so. Thanks again

[NemesisFactoryCards]

For definitely close this story i want to tell to other 2 remains people to contact me in pvt on kickstarter, I don't expect an apology for the insults, but i refund, so maybe in the future i can be a better man!

[MSimonart]

I have to agree with ovsub, we undersaznd your enthusiasm and ccommitment to tour work, and indeed when you try to do everything good it is frustrating to hear negative feedback, but man, you are a brand and you are selling a product, your main conconcern when communicating should be to always tell a calm and assertive story. When you are trying something new in your life it's harder to be 100% confident over it. But once you decide to bring it out and sell it your confidence should emmanate at all times from the product you created to the communication you make of it. Never try to convince your clients with words, we don't pay for words, we pay for someone who will go to the next mile to bring something worthy for the money we paid. Because what happened right now is not only did you not convince the negative feedbackers to try and buy with you again, you showed your rather think of your emotions than to think of a solution for those not content, and really this hurts your chances of getting new customers or retaining your existent customer base. And I understand you're not a native speaker and this can get frustrating for yourself, but saying 'I'll refund' or 'What about a free deck on your next purchase' or whatever solution you want to find is much easier to say than to try and explain how you feel. No one cares that you make mistakes, it's how you handle thel and handle other problems that makes the difference. But still, it is concerning that, in a community where the printer is the number 1 aspect of a custom deck, you took the change in printer so lightly. Maybe for you it isn't, but know your market before bringing somethibg out. Anyway this discussion had settled so I don't want to start it over again, and really I'm not here to judge you creator and I don't have the pretention to help you either, just try to think of what people need and want and what they pay for and that storytelling, communication and your eagerness to please your customers is as important as the product

Hey MSImon Art, thank for your words, i explain many times in the past that Enuma was my first project, i dont image that changed printer cause this problems, but trust to me i not have chance, because Legends was clear to me about production time. I want only demonstrate to my backer that my work deserves to be seen, before judgment, but this 3 backers not give to me any chance, they want a Legends product i suppose. Trust to me i send to all the decks, and one of this respond to me "i dont want this s..t deck"..sorry i cannot accept insult to me and my work, i refund one people that say to me that i had appreciated my artwork but he collected only legends decks, so i send my decks to him and refund him, im totally in good faith...maybe neophite yes but honest. and trust to me my friend, read some people now who try to denigrated my work and try to influencer all UC members it's really unfair, I don't think I deserve this.

Like I said, I'm not per se blaming you for change of printer, it happened with other projects. I understand you say you couldn't imagine it would be such a big deal, that was the only bit that was concerning to me because you just have to be a little involved into the playing cards collector community to know that the printer is the first aspect of a deck that makes or breaks it. You can have the most beautiful design, but if the paper stock and printing is of bad quality no one here in the collectors community and even more no one in the magic or cardistry community will buy them. And I'm not even talking about the collectors who would only want decks of one specific printing company. That's why, even with changing to another good printer, you have to be extremely cautious, you have to be very transparent about why you did it, and listen to what the people have to say about it. Maybe they would have even preferred to stay with the same printer and wait for 6 more months, maybe not, but with every change or every update on a (kickstarter) project you have to be absolutely transparent. People are rightfully very cautious on Kickstarter, we won't count the number of times where cards ultimately weren't delivered or something else was bad. And changing an aspect, whatever it is (but certainly the printer), without communicating about it is deadly. I understand it was your first project and I'm sure you learned by it, and I don't think you have bad intentions, but still again, it's concerning you didn't know this beforehand, certainly if you've worked over a year on this project. To me that's just common sense/basic knowledge. Normal mistakes on first projects are more in the line of general pricing/shipping taxes and custom fees/estimating the time it takes/knowing what part of the deck to print where/how to organize logistics etc. On a positive note, even though you probably won't have convinced everyone I still wanted to give you a thumbs up to have come back to this thread and responded calmly and assertively to some of the comments and interrogations. I really hoped you would do that for your own sake, and for me this shows you still have the potential to become a good playing card creator/designer. I wish you the best for the future.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Thank you so much Simonart..im really appreciated , yes i'm sure learn of past experience, and i understand that the printer is very important, i never change printer in future!thank you again.claude

[vasta41]

i refund one people that say to me that i had appreciated my artwork but he collected only legends decks, so i send my decks to him and refund him

As most know by now I was NOT one of the people who received a refund. But you don't think I deserved one because I didn't compliment you? How egotistical and narcissistic are you!? I BACKED YOUR PROJECT BECAUSE I APPRECIATED YOUR ARTWORK. I pledged my hard-earned money to help fulfill your goal and dream of printing a deck of playing cards. But that wasn't enough? I also needed to pump your tires in order to get my money back??

I told you I do not collect NPCC decks, which is the same thing as telling you I only wanted a Legends deck, the deck I paid for. You told me Italian law prohibited you from refunding me... so which is it?


For a long time now I have wanted to post our PMs in KS so everyone can see how WRONG you are but before I do that I will give you a chance to go through our conversations and point out exactly where I insulted you. Please, I implore you to pinpoint precisely where I was rude to you.

[Decknowledgy]

I sense the arrogance and attitude of Bill Davis Magic here (probably not as much but close), especially about the way you've responded to Jocu, about how justified and unmistakeable your knowledge is on the theme --- which is somewhat true for any creations. Personally, I stay away from this toxic way of interacting with people, on and off this forum, and people here HAVE experienced that sort of negative toxicity and do not welcome this sort of action.

Nonetheless, judging by the attempt of your clarification and genuine response to do a better job this and next times, I'd say give you a chance to redeem your reputation. Just keep in mind that people here don't really care that much about delays but rather promises and quality. A lot have wrecked their reputation with the latter, here and on other platforms like Reddit.

[vasta41]

I'd say give you a chance to redeem your reputation.

His chance at redemption is to admit he was wrong, apologize, and offer refunds to those who requested them. Until that happens why on earth would you give him a second chance??

[MagikFingerz]

His chance at redemption is to admit he was wrong, apologize, and offer refunds to those who requested them. Until that happens why on earth would you give him a second chance??

Looks like he's doing at least one of those things.

For definitely close this story i want to tell to other 2 remains people to contact me in pvt on kickstarter, I don't expect an apology for the insults, but i refund, so maybe in the future i can be a better man!

[Magic Tapp]

I sense the arrogance and attitude of Bill Davis Magic here (probably not as much but close), especially about the way you've responded to Jocu, about how justified and unmistakeable your knowledge is on the theme.

I rest my case - one just needs to look as to how cordial and customer oriented pretty much every of the well established card designers is. Lotrek, Alex Chin, Lorenzo, Montenzi, Sunish, Jackson, Gio, Randy, Dave G, Jody, Rick Davidson, etc. etc. And then you have this upstart who thinks he is God’s gift to Earth. Absolutely appalling.

[vasta41]

His chance at redemption is to admit he was wrong, apologize, and offer refunds to those who requested them. Until that happens why on earth would you give him a second chance??

Looks like he's doing at least one of those things.

For definitely close this story i want to tell to other 2 remains people to contact me in pvt on kickstarter, I don't expect an apology for the insults, but i refund, so maybe in the future i can be a better man!

Sorry, I missed that part (too many posts in a row...). It is nice to see he's offering that (finally!) but I don't think it's fair for me to have the decks and the money. I wanted a refund, not the cards. I will see if shipping them back is an option.

But beyond my personal experience, Claude really needs to acknowledge that it was a mistake to switch printers in his previous campaign. He will tell you about deadlines and fires until he's blue in the face. But it doesn't seem like he will ever tell you that he advertised one thing and sold another without so much as even offering an option or vote.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

Vasta contact me on ks i refund you , and no i dont want my decks back, i you say that i appreciate my work im happy if you have in your collection, maybe you not appreciated printer but i want to know that I APOLOGIES FOR THIS CHANGE OF PRINTER....i doint know that this issue can caused this problems, it's my first work, im neophite, so you receive apologize but i wnat you know that i im total good faith because i thinking to delivered decks in fast time as possible.
So please write me in ks and i send back your money, and i hope in the future to see you again in my work.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

I sense the arrogance and attitude of Bill Davis Magic here (probably not as much but close), especially about the way you've responded to Jocu, about how justified and unmistakeable your knowledge is on the theme --- which is somewhat true for any creations. Personally, I stay away from this toxic way of interacting with people, on and off this forum, and people here HAVE experienced that sort of negative toxicity and do not welcome this sort of action.

Nonetheless, judging by the attempt of your clarification and genuine response to do a better job this and next times, I'd say give you a chance to redeem your reputation. Just keep in mind that people here don't really care that much about delays but rather promises and quality. A lot have wrecked their reputation with the latter, here and on other platforms like Reddit.

sorry for this appearance, im not a person you describe, im simply neophite. but i respect your thoughts.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

especially about the way you've responded to Jocu, .

I simply explained that what he say its far to my project concepts, i ve not arrogance, and i dont think to miss respect of him, there is a risk that Him passed a concept that i tell a worng story or false concept, and this is wrong just this...

[vasta41]

Vasta contact me on ks i refund you , and no i dont want my decks back, i you say that i appreciate my work im happy if you have in your collection, maybe you not appreciated printer but i want to know that I APOLOGIES FOR THIS CHANGE OF PRINTER....i doint know that this issue can caused this problems, it's my first work, im neophite, so you receive apologize but i wnat you know that i im total good faith because i thinking to delivered decks in fast time as possible.
So please write me in ks and i send back your money, and i hope in the future to see you again in my work.

Thank you, I will be in contact. And for the record I wasted no time in telling the community that I did in fact receive my decks after all. I do not question your good faith, I question your stubbornness and resistance to believe that you could be wrong about something.

But IMO you have gone a long way just now in atoning.

[NemesisFactoryCards]

thank you man i write you in ks send me your paypal

[vasta41]

thank you man i write you in ks send me your paypal

I received your message and I accept your apology. I assume lessons have been learned and I wish you luck on this and other campaigns.

For the record Claude would have gladly paid me but I declined the refund since I don't think it's fair to own the decks for free.