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These will come in a NEW tuck box containing BOTH light/deck expansions, but I asked about making new alternate tuckboxes to fit the original deck with these additional cards for both light/deck. That way you could add on a thicker tuckbox and make a new full tarot deck or keep as original plus mixed expansion. He said he was already looking into that.

I understand the tuck is made from USPCC's finest material but I just can't justify adding an extra $20 for this. And waiting almost a year for these, I think I would rather an expansion KS for this instead of adding it on now.

ecNate wrote:These will come in a NEW tuck box containing BOTH light/deck expansions, but I asked about making new alternate tuckboxes to fit the original deck with these additional cards for both light/deck. That way you could add on a thicker tuckbox and make a new full tarot deck or keep as original plus mixed expansion. He said he was already looking into that.

If he could do that and lower the price of adding on these extra cards, I might be interested. Still a long time to wait for any KS rewards.

I don't understand myself why it would take a year. I understand it would take a while to the artwork but I would like to think he would have started this already beforehand. Also he says he would have the art done by July, so it takes an additional 5-6 months to produce and fulfill? It seems like it should be in our hands a lot sooner.

CK - It's $20 to pay for the additional shipment and extra artwork.

jerichoholic wrote:I don't understand myself why it would take a year. I understand it would take a while to the artwork but I would like to think he would have started this already beforehand. Also he says he would have the art done by July, so it takes an additional 5-6 months to produce and fulfill? It seems like it should be in our hands a lot sooner.

Victor, save your criticism of artists' work rates and production schedule for those who have failed to live up to the deadlines that they've set for themselves. Your repeated complaining that respected producers should be coming out with MOAR!!! stuff FASTER!!! is totally classless and shows utter lack of appreciation for the hard work involved in delivering the kind of great products that Chris delivers.

Why don't you try doing it yourself for once instead of the constant complaining?

th4mo wrote:

jerichoholic wrote:I don't understand myself why it would take a year. I understand it would take a while to the artwork but I would like to think he would have started this already beforehand. Also he says he would have the art done by July, so it takes an additional 5-6 months to produce and fulfill? It seems like it should be in our hands a lot sooner.

Victor, save your criticism of artists' work rates and production schedule for those who have failed to live up to the deadlines that they've set for themselves. Your repeated complaining that respected producers should be coming out with MOAR!!! stuff FASTER!!! is totally classless and shows utter lack of appreciation for the hard work involved in delivering the kind of great products that Chris delivers.

Why don't you try doing it yourself for once instead of the constant complaining?

Please tell me where exactly I criticized anyone's work rate? Or where I said I wanted more stuff faster? In fact less stuff would be great. In fact, too many creators start new projects before finishing previous ones and that shouldn't happen so much. All I was saying, or trying to say, is that I just think it would be great for us to receive everything at once. And as Chris stated himself, he would be done the art by July, which is fine. What I don't understand is why it wouldn't ship til December, a good 6 months later. I hope it will ship a couple of months before that at least.

I do appreciate the hard work these artists do especially since I'm no artist myself so I respect that. If I was I might try it myself. However many times it would just be nice if art was done before launching a project, that's all. I can't think of very many good reasons to launch a project well before art is done because then the project sits at a standstill. Anyway this is for the community as a whole.

I'm just looking for a better flow to Kickstarter projects from start to finish, similar to what Card Launcher was trying to do, I would have thought most of the people here would feel the same way.

Thing is, a lot of the time artists don't have everything ready to go because projects tend to evolve beyond the initial idea. Lotrek, Lorenzo and Chris for instance. They typically start with a pretty solid concept but taking user input and make changes here and there until the project is what it is. Often it's expanded far beyond the initial concept. Jackson, Paul, RJ and a few others at the other end of the spectrum usually have a well constructed idea and stick with it till the end barring a few changes and enhancements. Which is all fine. It's how they work.

I think Chris is just taking the necessary precautions and setting proper expectations. God knows we don't want another Shane Tyree situation. He grossly underestimated the time it takes him to draw and prepare everything. I'm still holding on to the hope that everything is moving along extremely slow but steady.

Believe me, I'd like a more fluid and faster process as well but sometimes it just doesn't work that way.

I don't think he was planning on doing the tarot expansion cards either. That's why the extra artwork is going to take longer than he expected.

I'm also on the fence about the expansion pack. It seems like a great idea at the moment but that can also become an instant gratification purchase later. They're being printed by USPCC so there's going to be heaps of them when it's all said and done.

If it was an entire deck, rather than a few gaffs and some expansion cards I think I would probably be all over it. I don't know though. There's definitely some merit to how he's decided to go about getting the expansion cards out to fill the tarot, but there's also the bit that causes trouble for me personally. It's hard to justify spending $20 for a tuck box that I can't pop open and have a game with straight away. Difficult choice for me to make at the moment.

THUNDERDOME!! You two...

I would suggest going ahead and put numbers or Roman numerals on the Major Arcana. Tower = 16, Lovers = 6. It makes it easier to remember the rank. The Fool is special he doesn't have a number, but you could put anything there like the Joker card.

Usually, they put the number top center, but I would place it like an index.

I'm trying to get the numbers right. So, he has 4 of the 22 Major Arcana in the original deck. 18 + 18 + 4 (White Cavaliers) + 4 (Black Cavaliers) = 44 cards. USPCC makes a 56 card deck leaves 12 extra cards or 6 Gaff cards for each deck color. That is a lot of extra cards. He would have to make a 84 card box to hold the 78 Tarot Cards and the 6 extra Gaff cards.

I don't think USPCC can make a box to hold 84. Hell, they can't come down to a 1000 deck run... He did mention about sending Tarot box at cost which is pretty cool. I wouldn't expect any bells or whistles on it...

I for one am in for these. This is a spectacular deck with incredible art. Waiting for something this beautiful will be hard for sure but well worth it.

That being said, some people would win the Mega-millions and only complain about the taxes.

I wonder what the $100,000 stretch goal is?

Lord Nikon wrote:I wonder what the $100,000 stretch goal is?

Hope it's something free coz I'm tapped out.

Per Chris D:

100K - free surprise gift for EVERY backer

What’s the surprise? You know that’s no fun. What I can tell you is that this a serious reward. It has a monetary value of about $12. IT’S KILLING ME not to tell you what it is, but I can’t for reasons that will be obvious after the project ends. I won’t announce what this thank you reward is until after the funding period closes. But once it does, I will IMMEDIATELY tell you what it is, and you will more than likely lose your mutha-lovin’ mind. Seriously, I think it’s that good… assuming you like rare things made of metal.

Eoghann wrote:

Lord Nikon wrote:I wonder what the $100,000 stretch goal is?

Hope it's something free coz I'm tapped out.

Heck yes.

Let's go people, put in more money so I can get free stuff!

Rare, metal. So it's a coin? Would be my first if so.

That would be cool. Coz the silver one is too rich for my pauper blood.

Chris is money. So it's gotta be money.

Ah this is some slick art from Chris as always, awesome work. And nailing it with two weeks to go, amazing. Extension deck is a great addition

Does anyone else feel like this book is just another cheap money grab with a not so cheap price tag? I can understand the expansion deck with a high price tag, but the pure silver coin, the cardboard and wooden boxes and now this high priced book. What's next, he'll offer an actual tarot sized deck with the same art but it'll cost more.

Nah it's not a money grab. While I do agree $30 for a book seems much, it's just an addon. Doesn't hurt anyone unless you buy it without wanting or needing it. No one is being forced to get it.

Anyone that's been keeping updated on this campaign: is the cardboard box deep enough to store the corresponding deck with its half of the expansion deck?

The cardboard boxes $5 each as an add on is designed to hold the full tarot deck (78 tarot cards) , ie 1 arcana deck + 1 expansion deck. Since the remainder of the major arcana cards are only available via the expansion deck add on of $20. I hope that helps? He also offers a very nice wooden box, as most tarot cards from serious card readers use instead of card board. If you wanted the entire collectors set I'd get each color of the decks, an expansion deck 2 cardboard boxes one in each color and then the wooden box. I've been keeping a CLOSE eye on this project as my pledges keep increasing lol and I need to sell off some cards...so if anyone needs something let me know. HAHA Damn you Chris O, making me spend money and stuff!

Eoghann wrote:Nah it's not a money grab. While I do agree $30 for a book seems much, it's just an addon. Doesn't hurt anyone unless you buy it without wanting or needing it. No one is being forced to get it.

Anyone that's been keeping updated on this campaign: is the cardboard box deep enough to store the corresponding deck with its half of the expansion deck?

Cbkimble wrote:Does anyone else feel like this book is just another cheap money grab with a not so cheap price tag? I can understand the expansion deck with a high price tag, but the pure silver coin, the cardboard and wooden boxes and now this high priced book. What's next, he'll offer an actual tarot sized deck with the same art but it'll cost more.

My god people are sensitive these days.. What money grab? He is offering a nice add-on book for those (like me) who appreciates the art also beside the actual deck. He did not come in my house and put a gun to my head. I am more than willing and happy to see this add-on. Calling someone cheap for offering add-ons that you might not want well it's... I will leave it at that

Chris happy you are going ahead with the book. And I would also buy a tarot size deck if you offered one hehe

Lord Nikon: Technically it would be one Arcana deck and HALF the expansion deck in the box right? You'd have to open up both decks and put them in there.
I just wanna make sure.

Edit: nevermind, Chris clarified. You can't fit tucks in it. The boxes are meant for loose cards. Just as I had hoped.

Hah yes that is what I tried to explain. I'm getting a set for my teenage daughter, my wife refuses to use any tarot but her own.

Eoghann wrote:Lord Nikon: Technically it would be one Arcana deck and HALF the expansion deck in the box right? You'd have to open up both decks and put them in there.
I just wanna make sure.

Edit: nevermind, Chris clarified. You can't fit tucks in it. The boxes are meant for loose cards. Just as I had hoped.

Seriously? He's well over $100k and the book is a money grab? *smh*

Chris doesn't need to induce anyone to spend their money, they are throwing it at him already. The main thing that people don't consider for items like this is the very limited number and amount of time & effort that goes into it. He might make a couple of bucks.

Ussi calendars were $30, and they only sold 20 or so. Nobody has to buy it, that's for sure.

Things like this are done for the love of art. Some people offer nothing but decks, others tend to make "one of each". Remember my by-line - "you can't please everyone"...

Mike Ratledge wrote:Chris doesn't need to induce anyone to spend their money, they are throwing it at him already.

That's my point. He's knows if he makes another add-on, many will throw their money at him. I'm not saying that he shouldn't make money for his work. By all means do so but his original intentions were not to.

So many of you asked for an extension deck that would (along with the other decks) make a complete tarot card deck, that I really wanted to find a way to make it happen.

So since so many "asked" him he "found a way". can't tell me he didn't see $$$. Therefore, IMO, the expansion deck and book are money grabs.

Now these two decks are on par with the price of two decks of tarot. Only difference is that tarot decks are 78, or more, cards each having an image. If someone is going to do a deck of playing cards, do a deck of playing cards. If someone is going to do a tarot deck, do a tarot deck.

This has nothing to do with being sensitive or not being able to afford it. Heck, I might pledge for them b/c I can. Doesn't mean I can't call it like I see it.

Cbkimble wrote:

Mike Ratledge wrote:Chris doesn't need to induce anyone to spend their money, they are throwing it at him already.

That's my point. He's knows if he makes another add-on, many will throw their money at him. I'm not saying that he shouldn't make money for his work. By all means do so but his original intentions were not to.

So many of you asked for an extension deck that would (along with the other decks) make a6complete tarot card deck, that I really wanted to find a way to make it happen.

So since so many "asked" him he "found a way". can't tell me he didn't see $$$. Therefore, IMO, the expansion deck and book are money grabs.

But I think Mike's point is that he's already making a good profit margin on the cards alone. The add on doesn't have a good profit margin because the costs of production might actually be pretty high, and not as much people will buy them versus the decks. Therefore, it's actually smarter not to offer it because it creates additional work and not much return.

When I think of money grab, I think something like a tuck swap, which doesn't cost anything to the creator and is of minimal effort, but would rake in bigger profit. For the book, it's a completely different product that requires much more effort to coordinate because it is not a usual offer. Coins seem easy in comparison, since creators off them all the time (coinsforanything is a favorite) . Custom brick box is easy as well, since USPCC can do that. But this book is different because not a common offering and he can't go to the usual vendors to get it.

Btw, did Chris say that he had no intention of making a profit? Just curious.

Sher wrote:When I think of money grab, I think something like a tuck swap, which doesn't cost anything to the creator and is of minimal effort, but would rake in bigger profit.

I see your point. Cash grab may be the wrong term.

Sher wrote:Btw, did Chris say that he had no intention of making a profit? Just curious.

no, I just added that b/c I do believe artists should get paid for their work.

Chris O. has been one of the most inventive deck creators on KS.
He started the Calaveras/Day of the Dead deck meme on KS -- its been imitated several times.
The Oracle deck and the planchette, copper foil and spirit board are fantastic in concept and execution. I pledged for several.

Making a poker size themed Tarot is brilliant.
I'm a bit proud to have been the first to suggest that he add a third deck with the full major Arcana, but I bet it was in the back of his mind all along. The kerchief, big tuck etc -- all this was done as part of the conversation with his backers. This is a way a great KS campaign is done.

I think the book is a bit of a different story. It's something that artists really want to do, sort of a statement of success.

Now if we can only get him to add a metallic ink LE as the $150K stretch goal!

/bama

150k goal is LE sleeves for all decks and special gilded version tier.