BUSKERS from Mana Playing Cards -Now Live on KS

[badpete69]

He just opened 12 more of the $200 pledge level for those who are interested

[nECr0MaNCeD]

Erik just added 12 more Complete Mana sets, for those that missed it.

[Cbkimble]

What the hell, I added the box set. I'm in for now.

[Strag]

Pretty disappointed that this was launched whilst I'm still waiting for over $300 worth of Sybil cards. I won't be backing.

[Mike Ratledge]

Pretty disappointed that this was launched whilst I'm still waiting for over $300 worth of Sybil cards. I won't be backing.

I agree it's disappointing, but he has proactively addressed everything to the letter.

I'm waiting as well, but I have no doubt that he will deliver. These days you depend on suppliers to give you what they say they can. He's in a situation no different than anyone else who tried to put together two (or more) companies, heck - same as people waiting on USPCC, Expert/Legends or anyone else.

The only person who even came close to realistic expectations in Jody, and even he struggled to get things done within a reasonable time.

Bill is watching people flock back to USPCC, even though they haven't met deadlines either.

The only non-commercial deck in recent history delivered before expected is Hotcakes, although I don't buy everything, so maybe there are others.

I know he has to be looking for more capacity and let's face it, USPCC obviously could care less. They greeted the new year with price increases, when they should have bought their "external tuck provider" at a minimum. The problem there is that I'm sure they make good money every time somebody wants embossing, foil, or anything beyond the basic flat cardboard box.

We're starting to shift the blame for delays from the manufacturers to the artists, and they (mostly) were using reasonable expectations from recent projects.

[Strag]

I hear ya Mike but the fact is I just don't believe one should launch a new project before having delivered on the previous. In fact I actually think this should be a KS policy.

[Mike Ratledge]

I hear ya Mike but the fact is I just don't believe one should launch a new project before having delivered on the previous. In fact I actually think this should be a KS policy.

I agree, but within reason. They let CPC run multiple concurrent projects that are not even Crowdfunding at all. Of course they are making 5% on every dollar collected.

Until people unite and fight it, they have no incentive to change, in opposite, they make mo money.

How many times have they refunded a dime to anyone defrauded? Zero, AFAIK.

[Cbkimble]

I understand the manufacturers are the reason for a majority of delays and Erik has delivered all of his previous, but there are several other artists waiting on projects to fulfill before starting another project they have waiting.

I have to agree, it should be a KS policy.

[Strag]

I hear ya Mike but the fact is I just don't believe one should launch a new project before having delivered on the previous. In fact I actually think this should be a KS policy.

I agree, but within reason. They let CPC run multiple concurrent projects that are not even Crowdfunding at all. Of course they are making 5% on every dollar collected.

Until people unite and fight it, they have no incentive to change, in opposite, they make mo money.

How many times have they refunded a dime to anyone defrauded? Zero, AFAIK.

Yup, and there's a reason I don't support or even purchase in the aftermarket CPC products.

[Mike Ratledge]

Yup, and there's a reason I don't support or even purchase in the aftermarket CPC products.

Myself as well, except I got one of Max's Metal decks. It's the only one worth having, and Max needs to understand that he can't stay there without suffering.

I know that he wouldn't have been there to start with if he weren't a man of his word.

Back to Buskers...

More than 50% funded 24 hours in, looking forward to seeing them. The theme is great, and ties back to the recent focus on sideshows, maybe we'll see "Freak Show" soon?

[ecNate]

Oh really? I must have not been paying attention, now that is one I would get behind as I am skipping buskers.

[bamabenz]

If you read the description of a project and see multiple printers (Spike, Titanic,...), one-of-a-kind rewards (Warrior, mechanical frame, ...), a plethora of different rewards, state-of-the-art printing techniques or unusual tucks (Sybil) then you better be prepared for delays.

/bama

p.s. I understand and agree with having a personal policy not to back new when old has not been delivered. I do not apply that to creators with credibility, like Erik Mana.

[Cbkimble]

I just got a little bit of information that has me concerned. Apparently, the sybil project is on hold b/c the tucks Erik had printed were not suitable for the decks. So I wonder if sybil is on the back burner till bruskers funds.

[bamabenz]

I just got a little bit of information that has me concerned. Apparently, the sybil project is on hold b/c the tucks Erik had printed were not suitable for the decks. So I wonder if sybil is on the back burner till bruskers funds.

This is not news. From Feb. 9 update:

Hi everyone,

Just an update on the tuck boxes. EPCC has consulted with their tuck box manufacturer. Apparently they are not willing to follow my template and insist on using their own version which is very different from my original design. It's not only a different design, but it functions differently from mine and it's much bulkier. Plus they also mentioned that it would cost at least 4 to 5 times more if they were to produce their own tuck box. I guess what they're really trying to say is "No", so no thank you.

As I mentioned before, I am already in communication with other suppliers and I am currently in the process of determining which supplier is best for the job. It is a very competitive market and will have to do my due diligence to make sure these companies will follow through with their promised quality.

With all that being said, it seems that there is a common consensus about my box design which I must now consider changing as recommended by some of these suppliers. Two things to be exact:

Lamination - At least three suppliers suggested a layer of matte lamination to protect the boxes from rips at the back of the box along the fold. Since the box lid must be pulled back completely to allow the deck to come out of the box, the box is more prone to rips along the back fold of the lid, more than any other standard tuck box out there. Admittedly, I did not take this into account when designing the box, which is now something I have to consider for both the blue boxes and the gold and platinum reserve boxes. In the end, it's all about producing a quality box and there are many options to producing top quality boxes. If that means finding better paper and providing added protection to them then I'm all for it.

Template Adjustment - Another common issue was the alignment of the foil stamping, specifically with the front circle ornament of the lid. The original design has the die cut exactly around the circle ornament, where it is also to be embossed and foil stamped. Unfortunately, there is not a machine out there that can give a precise cut, stamp and embossment and have it all line up perfectly 100% of the time and I must now account for some margin around the cut. Something my original supplier neglected to mention to me. That means adding 2mm to the die cut around the circle to ensure the embossing, stamping and cut is within the design.

Despite these changes, I feel a great sense of relief that there is something we can do to improve on the boxes and get them done properly with all the issues addressed.

Once I have finalized the supplier and have gotten a proper sample from them, I shall update you all on the progress. Thanks again for your patience.

Moving forward!

Erik

[Strag]

I just got a little bit of information that has me concerned. Apparently, the sybil project is on hold b/c the tucks Erik had printed were not suitable for the decks. So I wonder if sybil is on the back burner till bruskers funds.

Relatively new and still relevant to me. I saw that update as well and that's another reason I'm not backing Buskers. As I said, I made a significant pledge and now it's at least April before delivery but I'm actually betting on June at the earliest. It's a shame because I do like the design of Buskers but I have to have some "rules" especially with the larger pledges.

I've been burned twice on playing card projects (so far) but both of those were early on (Core and Asylum) and have managed to avoid a few since by having these "rules" although it has cost me on a couple projects I would have backed otherwise. Most of the ones I missed out on because of this I was able to later pick up, often for less money.

The fact is...people have different attitudes towards KS. Originally my attitude was more "we are supporting artistic types and things are going to sometimes not work out" and now it's more "we have no protections and KS has become more and more of an online pre-ordering marketplace so I will treat it accordingly". I wouldn't buy from an online merchant if I didn't feel they could deliver (and yes, this still happens) and I choose to make the same decisions with KS, just with different criteria.

[Mike Ratledge]

Astute observations, Strag, and spot on again. I have been burned twice, both for $20 and once for $100, so I fully understand the logic, with the exception that if someone like Jackson were running a new project before Army is delivered, I would still have faith in his ability to deliver, and I put Erik in the same category.

Sybil is not "on hold" so much as it is waiting for the second manufacturer to deliver proofs that are up to muster. I suppose it's delayed, but "on hold"? Semantics, and I see it from both perspectives. The minute he has tuck proofs to meet his (and our) exacting specifications, I'm certain it will be a matter of weeks before Bill & Expert PCC are putting great decks in them, then we all wait for the ocean freight four weeks delay that is built into the cycle. It goes back to every artist counting on manufacturers to deliver what they ordered when someone says "we can do that".

I would much prefer to wait than to get substandard product, I don't think anyone feels differently.

[sms69x]

I like the pips and the backs. But I can't justify the high price, 14USD/deck (in a six deck pack) is way too much. Love Erik's work, but will have to pass on these, hope the price goes down in the after market (it'll not happen, but one can hope!)

[vasta41]

As far as Sybil goes, I for one like the fact that Erik isn't just rushing out a crappy product. I like his decision to wait it out until he has a product good enough to his standards at the risk of making the townspeople restless. It's unfortunate what happened and it's frustrating to not have the decks when we were supposed to but like I said I'd rather receive a perfect product late than a so-so product on time.

I digress. Buskers is expensive but I must say that I'm addicted to Mana and will pledge for these and all his future decks.

[Mike Ratledge]

I like the pips and the backs. But I can't justify the high price, 14USD/deck (in a six deck pack) is way too much. Love Erik's work, but will have to pass on these, hope the price goes down in the after market (it'll not happen, but one can hope!)

$14 Canadian is only $11.1 American, though - or did you already adjust that?

Lot of us always knew they were the same growing up, but lately 97¢ became 93¢ and over the last few years it's 80¢ on the American dollar.

$14 USD with overseas delivery, maybe? (I don't see shipping from US addresses at all, he included it old school style)

Yep, I see it now. Believe it or not $26 CAD is right for overseas,actually giving up a buck or two. It's $24.75 at the post office and $23.50 self-printed (in US$)...

[sms69x]

$14 Canadian is only $11.1 American, though - or did you already adjust that?

It is $14 USD as I mentioned in my post. Would be good if it were $11.1 USD, but no it is $14 USD in a six deck pack (shipping included).

Yep, I see it now. Believe it or not $26 CAD is right for overseas,actually giving up a buck or two. It's $24.75 at the post office and $23.50 self-printed (in US$)...

And once more, we, internationals backers are paying double shipping (international value + US shipping)!
It costs $24 USD to ship 6 decks international, having in mind that to ship the same number of decks in the US costs arround $10 USD, we are being overcharged in $7 USD ($26 CAD ~ $20 USD), well this value divided for 6 decks would mean that I would pay $1 USD less per deck, thus giving me a total per deck of $13 USD, and this would be a value that I was willing to pay.

[Mike Ratledge]

Oh, I get where you are coming from, but it's mostly wrong because shipping up to 12 decks in the US is only $5.20 even using Priority Mail.

Where they get you overseas is that you can't ship more than 13oz First Class internationally, you have to go to Priority Mail International (formerly known as Priority Air International, but everything goes air mail these days) for four or more decks, and the minimum is $24.75 at the post or $23.50 if you print it yourself, and you get charged a fee to fill out the CL22 customs form as well. Unless you do it all yourself, there is a handling fee somehow missing from consideration. I guess IF you self-fulfill, you can mostly eat that.

I agree that it's not done right, but it could be now. People need to break out the shipping & handling for the US backers to be fair and let us compare directly instead of apples to oranges.

[sms69x]

Oh, I get where you are coming from, but it's mostly wrong because shipping up to 12 decks in the US is only $5.20 even using Priority Mail.

Where they get you overseas is that you can't ship more than 13oz First Class internationally, you have to go to Priority Mail International (formerly known as Priority Air International, but everything goes air mail these days) for four or more decks, and the minimum is $24.75 at the post or $23.50 if you print it yourself, and you get charged a fee to fill out the CL22 customs form as well. Unless you do it all yourself, there is a handling fee somehow missing from consideration. I guess IF you self-fulfill, you can mostly eat that.

I agree that it's not done right, but it could be now. People need to break out the shipping & handling for the US backers to be fair and let us compare directly instead of apples to oranges.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[sinjin7]

As far as Sybil goes, I for one like the fact that Erik isn't just rushing out a crappy product. I like his decision to wait it out until he has a product good enough to his standards at the risk of making the townspeople restless. It's unfortunate what happened and it's frustrating to not have the decks when we were supposed to but like I said I'd rather receive a perfect product late than a so-so product on time.

I digress. Buskers is expensive but I must say that I'm addicted to Mana and will pledge for these and all his future decks.

Erik has built up considerable brand equity and good will, so I hope he doesn't blow that on compromising on sub-standard tucks. My fear is that he based his tuck design on cigarette boxes. Cigarette boxes aren't designed to be durable, once you run out of smokes, you toss the box. But to use that form factor for playing cards, which hopefully will last a long time, you have to make sure that its able to withstand being open and closed multiple times over a long period of time, and that's not what cigarette boxes are designed for. The closest analogy to the Sybil tucks are D&D's Voltige decks, which open horizonally rather than vertically. Those tucks kind of suck - somewhat hard to open and close quickly, and the back hinge is already showing considerable wear (it also didn't help that it was perforated).

I don't think the issue is that people are so concerned that he's delayed with the Sybil tucks, I'm sure virtually everyone is willing to wait longer for better tucks. The issue is that he's started another campaign without fulfilling the previous campaign. As long as Erik and co doesn't focus on the Buskers campaign to the detriment of the Sybil so that its even further delayed than it already is, then I'm inclided to give Erik the benefit of the doubt.

[TGunitedcardists]

I hear ya Mike but the fact is I just don't believe one should launch a new project before having delivered on the previous. In fact I actually think this should be a KS policy.

However you spend your money, that's your business.

A counter point is Kings Wild have a bunch of projects on the go. They have money from many people right now. He's launching one, maybe two projects in April too. I have every confidence Kings Wild will deliver because of their track record.

There are a few companies/people I wouldn't hesitate to purchase cards from, regardless on how many concurrent projects they have on the go:
Kings Wild Project, Encarded, Uusi and Mana.

A more realistic reason to pass on this deck would be the price is too high, or you're not a fan of the design, but worrying about delivery shouldn't be a part of the equation.

[vasta41]

Well Erik just cancelled this project:

This is the great thing about Kickstarter! It allows creators to gauge the market and adjust to it.

Buskers was an exploration into a new style for me and I learned a lot about what kind of deck this should be. I've listened to input by backers and watched the movement of this campaign. It has shown me the market demand for Buskers and that helped me make proper decisions on how to make the project better and make changes accordingly.

Therefore, I will be cancelling funding in order for me to make the proper adjustments to this project. Despite the slowness in funding for Buskers, I only see positive things coming out of this campaign. I’ve already been working on a new campaign and I will be relaunching very soon!

I want to thank every single one of you that has stuck by this project and have given support beyond just being a backer. You guys are awesome! Thank you so much! I hope to see you in the relaunch. Together, lets bring Buskers to life!

We're moving forward! Buskers will be back very soon!

Best regards,

Erik

I hope this comes back as soon as he says!

[Widdee]

I thought it was just fine like it was.

[Conturbia]

I'm sorry for Eric but he will relaunch. Also, I'm happy that he delays the production to get a better product, we wait additional weeks but it's worthy.

[cosmicsecret]

Better pricings and i would be in - but as already stated in the thread $14USD for a deck in a 6 deck bundle int. shipped. Sorry the market corrected himself.

[Mike Ratledge]

Cancellation goes back to what I always tell people who ask about when to cancel a KS project. There's only two ways to go, funded or not. If it's funding, you are (especially first timers) busting your hump every day for 30 days, if it's not you endure the pain as long as you can until you cancel.

I think Erik saw the writing on the wall a week or so ago and I feel certain that he will make adjustments before he relaunches. That will also give him time to address the issue with the tucks for Sybil, which he has detailed even more in the past few days. It would be a good thing to at least have a firm fixed date for them IF he doesn't at least start fulfillment before he does. As I noted on Facebook, we're all pretty jaded not to mention skeptical at this point after a few artists have jerked us around.

[badpete69]

Update just posted

The Buskers are back in town with a whole new act!

Our opening act is the Original Vintage Buskers, printed by USPCC with Air Cushion Finish, metallic ink and as an unlimited release. Followed by the main act, the Buskers Exclusive, printed by EPCC with their premium Master Finish, silver metallic ink, including an embossed tuck box with clear foil and silver foil stamping, which will be a limited 1000 deck release.

The Buskers Exclusive will have enhanced faces and reimagined Aces, including new jokers. They are currently in the design stage and we shall update everyone as we complete each stage.

Limited Rewards Update...

Keep your eyes open for our update on the new Reward Tiers. This will give you all a heads up on the type of limited rewards available so that you will be able to pledge faster on those limited reward tiers before they're all gone. Don't miss the opening because we don't expect these limited reward tiers to last very long!

Thank you for sticking around!

I just want to say thank you for sticking with us on this project. I'm truly grateful by all your support. You guys are the best! Thank you!

Erik