UnitedCardists.com - The forum for Cardistry, Magic, Custom Decks and All Things Playing Cards.

KGthePrince wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:39 am

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:53 am I have even started drawing cards and cardbacks from scratch but, it's called my 'Sketchy' series. The card back for my first one (Sketchy Void)

Patreon post image-6.jpg

I even have a video of me drawing one of the cards on my patreon.

So.

Like I said before, I'm not holding you to the flame. I think you're a cool designer. If you ever have extra Patreon decks, I'm sure a lot of here would be interested in buying them. Wishing you all the best homie. I think you have a great brand.

I appreciate your honesty and if your partner has an Instagram or something I'd love to follow them!

I'm not upset with you or your partner. I am upset that I have to constantly explain my stance on AI and how I use it. It's not a secret, or at least it shouldn't be at this point.

My next kickstarter will have AI usage disclosed, as would SPIRITS have had if that were a thing when I started it lol.

I'm a designer, and I am trying to learn to digitally draw and paint.

I would love to put a full start to finish video out for a card design.

As for extra patreon decks, unfortunately there is no way to get them without being a patron, or the aftermarket if people want to sell theirs.

Thank you for the encouragement, though!

i will say it again here, for the people in the back, for no other reason than i have the impulse to do so, idgas if something is 100% AI generated. i feel like 100% ai has a certain style to it, just as 100% human generated does as well. the ai generated style is one that i like very much in many cases. i assume ai generated art would take less and less time as one gets familiar with how to best use the tools, but ai generated art does still take some time and effort, especially to get several different pieces that all go together. i say this from dabbling a little in trying my hand at it and not being able to get anything that looked worth a shit lol. putting together a solid ai generated deck probably takes more time and effort than the time and effort put into the entire catalog of fontaine, anyone, virts or missing decks. maybe even well regarded brands like orbit that just design a back and paste on premade courts. maybe more than any other JAB job from any brand.

regardless, whether it is AI or human, for me, it comes down to how much i like the final design/art. generally, i couldn't care less about the process of how it came to be. some are just so stuck on the mediums and/or tools used to create the piece.

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:51 am Thank you, @VillainousIndustries, for your posts! You handled this very professionally, unlike some usual suspects who prefer personal attacks before even starting a conversation. Much respect for that! Really appreciated! You have explained everything and addressed all the gaps, so I don't feel the need to add anything. I wish you all the best! Keep doing what you love doing.

I appreciate your willingness to not just read, but understand as well.-

-I absolutely love your art, BTW, so I hope to continue seeing your decks in my feed
Much love.

After further comments from this dude, I rescind my statement, and the Villain character is coming out.

Dude, you're a condescending a$$hat.

Akin to what EvilGamer said, you have lost me as a potential backer and fan.

Sort out your priorities.

STLBluesNut wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:03 pm i will say it again here, for the people in the back, for no other reason than i have the impulse to do so, idgas if something is 100% AI generated. i feel like 100% ai has a certain style to it, just as 100% human generated does as well. the ai generated style is one that i like very much in many cases. i assume ai generated art would take less and less time as one gets familiar with how to best use the tools, but ai generated art does still take some time and effort, especially to get several different pieces that all go together. i say this from dabbling a little in trying my hand at it and not being able to get anything that looked worth a shit lol. putting together a solid ai generated deck probably takes more time and effort than the time and effort put into the entire catalog of fontaine, anyone, virts or missing decks. maybe even well regarded brands like orbit that just design a back and paste on premade courts. maybe more than any other JAB job from any brand.

regardless, whether it is AI or human, for me, it comes down to how much i like the final design/art. generally, i couldn't care less about the process of how it came to be. some are just so stuck on the mediums and/or tools used to create the piece.

I like this stance.

I will say, however that the reason I dislike 100% AI art is that the AI that created it was trained on thousands of artists pieces. So in reality, sometimes it breaks the boundry between theft and generative art. But I personally don't care if someone uses 100% AI art as long as they either disclose that it is AI, or when asked they are honest about it.

Saying it isn't AI at all when it clearly is, is the exact reason why I get pissed with people like Hao Phan.

Ya know?

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:51 am Thank you, @VillainousIndustries, for your posts! You handled this very professionally, unlike some usual suspects who prefer personal attacks before even starting a conversation. Much respect for that! Really appreciated! You have explained everything and addressed all the gaps, so I don't feel the need to add anything. I wish you all the best! Keep doing what you love doing.

You're a weird cat man. You come on here and straight up accuse another artist of willful deceit without explanation or proof and then have the gall to say it was others that were resorting to personal attacks? Seriously? And you never apologized to the man either btw.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:13 pm
I like this stance.

I will say, however that the reason I dislike 100% AI art is that the AI that created it was trained on thousands of artists pieces. So in reality, sometimes it breaks the boundry between theft and generative art. But I personally don't care if someone uses 100% AI art as long as they either disclose that it is AI, or when asked they are honest about it.

Saying it isn't AI at all when it clearly is, is the exact reason why I get pissed with people like Hao Phan.

Ya know?

i understand what you are saying here. i too think it isnt good for someone to deny it or falsely claim it is not AI. personally, i dont even need dislosure. when i see an image, i dont really care if a person used an ipad with an oil brush tool or oil paints and brushes and i dont feel slighted if it is digital and they didnt say it was. when i eat a cookie that is good as hell, i dont care if it was mixed by hand, with an electric mixer or made in a factory never handled by a human hand except for delivery and they dont need to tell me how it was done.

also, perhaps this is just a technicality or semantics, but wasnt every modern day artists brain trained by looking at thousands of images or artists pieces? people pay big money to get their brain trained at schools and universities by looking at and studying other works of art. some collage type artists get hella reknown and respect (and money) and they are literally cutting/copy pasting other people's shit. i dont see people poo pooing them. i never saw a criticism of mr. cup's ephimerid deck even though he uses old art and maps and other stuff and just layers them together in a new composition.

i feel like, in a way, this is, like many other topics, where some over focus on a particular aspect and are, to some degree, selectively outraged.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:27 pm

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:51 am Thank you, @VillainousIndustries, for your posts! You handled this very professionally, unlike some usual suspects who prefer personal attacks before even starting a conversation. Much respect for that! Really appreciated! You have explained everything and addressed all the gaps, so I don't feel the need to add anything. I wish you all the best! Keep doing what you love doing.

You're a weird cat man. You come on here and straight up accuse another artist of willful deceit without explanation or proof and then have the gall to say it was others that were resorting to personal attacks? Seriously? And you never apologized to the man either btw.

Oh man, please read everything again. Take a moment to calm down and read it once more. Repeat this until you understand.

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:34 pm

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:27 pm

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:51 am Thank you, @VillainousIndustries, for your posts! You handled this very professionally, unlike some usual suspects who prefer personal attacks before even starting a conversation. Much respect for that! Really appreciated! You have explained everything and addressed all the gaps, so I don't feel the need to add anything. I wish you all the best! Keep doing what you love doing.

You're a weird cat man. You come on here and straight up accuse another artist of willful deceit without explanation or proof and then have the gall to say it was others that were resorting to personal attacks? Seriously? And you never apologized to the man either btw.

Oh man, please read everything again. Take a moment to calm down and read it once more. Repeat this until you understand.

I am calm and I'm not misunderstanding. But I get it, you don't want to admit fault.

Villain, I remember someone asked you about AI usage before, as it turns out it was montenzi. TBF to his reactions, you never clarified anything and somewhat dodged the question.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 pm Thank you.
I've been a graphic designer for a while and an artist for even longer.

Gotta be strong in your convictions to make it.

Lol

montenzi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:27 pmAI?

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:06 pm

montenzi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:33 pm

PlayTheVillain wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:41 pm
If you're talking about Adobe Illustrator, yes, everything gets put into CMYK and Vector form using Illustrator before any printing.

If you're talking about Artificial Intelligence, I have no qualms with using AI as a reference generator or for idea curation. But straight up, AI generated images as 'artwork' is not my thing.

I am not against AI (Artificial Intelligence), but it feels very familiar. That's why I asked specifically, as there were no warnings about AI (Artificial Intelligence) artwork in the campaign.

BTW what do you mean "everything gets put into CMYK and Vector form using Illustrator before any printing "?

I do all the design work in photoshop in raster RGB, then export to Illustrator, make it vector and change it to CMYK for best print quality.

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:29 pm Villain, I remember someone asked you about AI usage before, as it turns out it was montenzi. TBF to his reactions, you never clarified anything and somewhat dodged the question.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 pm Thank you.
I've been a graphic designer for a while and an artist for even longer.

Gotta be strong in your convictions to make it.

Lol

montenzi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:27 pmAI?

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 7:06 pm

montenzi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 5:33 pm

PlayTheVillain wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:41 pm
If you're talking about Adobe Illustrator, yes, everything gets put into CMYK and Vector form using Illustrator before any printing.

If you're talking about Artificial Intelligence, I have no qualms with using AI as a reference generator or for idea curation. But straight up, AI generated images as 'artwork' is not my thing.

I am not against AI (Artificial Intelligence), but it feels very familiar. That's why I asked specifically, as there were no warnings about AI (Artificial Intelligence) artwork in the campaign.

BTW what do you mean "everything gets put into CMYK and Vector form using Illustrator before any printing "?

I do all the design work in photoshop in raster RGB, then export to Illustrator, make it vector and change it to CMYK for best print quality.

I didn't dodge the question. I said exactly what I needed to say. I have no qualms with using AI in the way I specified that I use it.

I have been an artist for a long time, but I have never claimed to be the artist of my designs, nor have I ever claimed to be an artist I the context of this brand and business.

Call me 6 years ago when I was making video games and digital concept art for board games, and I'd tell you I am an artist. Lol

On your long post you said you never denied using AI stuff, you didn't disclosed it either even if someone already asked, until now.

My impression after reading that conversation a while back is that you're not against usage of AI but that's not your thing. You can say that's just my assumption, but that's how you intended to come accross. montenzi felt the same, I guess.

p.s. this is water under the bridge, anyway. Just putting the record out here for other's reference.

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:59 pm On your long post you said you never denied using AI stuff, you didn't disclosed it either even if someone already asked, until now.

My impression after reading that conversation a while back is that you're not against usage of AI but that's not your thing. You can say that's just my assumption, but that's how you intended to come accross. montenzi felt the same, I guess.

p.s. this is water under the bridge, anyway. Just putting the record out here for other's reference.

I guess I did not clearly state outright that 'I use AI as a tool'.

I should have been more clear in that statement of "I have no qualms using it' and been more direct. I guess I was annoyed that I put a lot of work into my stuff and someone can just cut you in half with two letters.

That's my bad.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:44 pm I am calm and I'm not misunderstanding. But I get it, you don't want to admit fault.

What's wrong with you? I asked some questions very politely, and @V explained everything and even confirmed some details. I didn't address you, and it wasn't your concern.

It seems you're looking for more drama. No, that wasn't my intention and It won't happen. The case has closed! Again, thanks to @V for his approach.

p.s. I don't care about @V's edited post above, no problems at all.

p.s. Disenchanted_11, you are right that I didn't receive a response at that time, but I stopped asking because it was a live Kickstarter campaign, and I didn't want to bash it.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:04 pm ... That's my bad.

montenzi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 5:25 pm I asked some questions ...

Disenchanted_11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:59 pm ... this is water under the bridge, anyway.

Adamthinks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:44 pm I am calm and I'm not misunderstanding. ...

[We've reached of sort-of-lull here -- let's all maybe let this topic rest for a bit? Thanks everyone]

Except for one thing hsbc, I cannot reconcile these two

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 pm Thank you.
I've been a graphic designer for a while and an artist for even longer.

Gotta be strong in your convictions to make it.

Lol

and yet on the previous page of this thread we read

I am not an artist. I've said this before.

I am pretty big on trust and truth

Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:58 pm Except for one thing hsbc, I cannot reconcile these two

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 4:16 pm Thank you.
I've been a graphic designer for a while and an artist for even longer.

Gotta be strong in your convictions to make it.

Lol

and yet on the previous page of this thread we read

I am not an artist. I've said this before.

I am pretty big on trust and truth

In the subject of creating playing cards, I have never said I was an artist or 'the artist', always 'the designer'.

I have been an artist, for about 17 years in-fact. But just because I have been an artist does not mean I currently consider myself one.

Someone who used to be a teacher and is a bar tender now would say they have been a teacher for longer than they have been a bartender.

I am currently relearning my art skills that I have not flexed in this way for around 3 years. Lol

not sure i like the flipped, mirrored back but the ace and jokers are really nice!

When do you expect to have all the tracking #'s sent for Spirits ?

CCwonder wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:53 pm When do you expect to have all the tracking #'s sent for Spirits ?

We are working our way through the orders, you'll get yours when you get it.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:55 pm

CCwonder wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:53 pm When do you expect to have all the tracking #'s sent for Spirits ?

We are working our way through the orders, you'll get yours when you get it.

I'm sorry if my question was rude. I didn't think it was but your response leads me to think otherwise.

CCwonder wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:14 pm

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:55 pm

CCwonder wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:53 pm When do you expect to have all the tracking #'s sent for Spirits ?

We are working our way through the orders, you'll get yours when you get it.

I'm sorry if my question was rude. I didn't think it was but your response leads me to think otherwise.

Well, to be honest my guy, this is a forum post for a patreon deck. My kickstarter is still available for messaging, so is my Instagram, hell, so is my United Cardists account. I have been very clear that we are currently underway on shipping ourselves. We are doing it all in-house with just 2 people. It's taking longer than expected due to random stuff we have no control over that we have been transparent about through updates.

I have no issue with being asked about people's orders or anything like that in my DMs.

What I do have an issue with is being asked in a public forum, that has nothing to do with SPIRITS at all about it, again.

This is not the place to ask me about your kickstarter rewards, and it's just slightly inappropriate in my opinion.

Feel free to ask about your stuff on any SPIRITS posts, or on the kickstarter or on my Instagram, or whatever.

I appreciate your support of my project, and I am more than happy to let you know how far along we are on your order in particular, but you have to go through the proper channels.

I don't mean to come off as Blunt. This is just not the first time I have told you this isn't the place to do this.

Thanks.

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:48 pm

CCwonder wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:14 pm

VillainousIndustries wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:55 pm

CCwonder wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:53 pm When do you expect to have all the tracking #'s sent for Spirits ?

We are working our way through the orders, you'll get yours when you get it.

I'm sorry if my question was rude. I didn't think it was but your response leads me to think otherwise.

Well, to be honest my guy, this is a forum post for a patreon deck. My kickstarter is still available for messaging, so is my Instagram, hell, so is my United Cardists account. I have been very clear that we are currently underway on shipping ourselves. We are doing it all in-house with just 2 people. It's taking longer than expected due to random stuff we have no control over that we have been transparent about through updates.

I have no issue with being asked about people's orders or anything like that in my DMs.

What I do have an issue with is being asked in a public forum, that has nothing to do with SPIRITS at all about it, again.

This is not the place to ask me about your kickstarter rewards, and it's just slightly inappropriate in my opinion.

Feel free to ask about your stuff on any SPIRITS posts, or on the kickstarter or on my Instagram, or whatever.

I appreciate your support of my project, and I am more than happy to let you know how far along we are on your order in particular, but you have to go through the proper channels.

I don't mean to come off as Blunt. This is just not the first time I have told you this isn't the place to do this.

Thanks.

I have personally heard a couple people say they would not support you because of your attitude/rudeness. I stuck up for you but now rethink my actions. First you swear at me cause my question was not in the right thread and now you tell me I'm out of line because I ask a simple question in a conversation where Spirits has been brought up. I don't know what the big deal is. I wish you peace and happiness in your journey.

The only rudeness is the contant quoting of previous posts. Makes threads so unecessarly cluttered but I guess young fellows don't know how to forum these days .

Thanks for attending me TEDtalk.

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:58 am The only rudeness is the contant quoting of previous posts. Makes threads so unecessarly cluttered but I guess young fellows don't know how to forum these days .

Thanks for attending me TEDtalk.

lol

CCwonder wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:31 am

Harvonsgard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:58 am The only rudeness is the contant quoting of previous posts. Makes threads so unecessarly cluttered but I guess young fellows don't know how to forum these days .

Thanks for attending me TEDtalk.

lol

I'll have you know Ive been foruming for years.

I don’t think it was the only rudeness, but trying to wear all the hats in a business is going to leave a few rough edges. Various things along the course of time will either suffer from them or polish them smooth.

That's true.

I personally feel like I'm too old to give a sh*t what people think about me.

I make things.

If you like those things, cool. If not, also cool.

I don't need people to like me.

My wife has had to edit so many of my comments on kickstarter and stuff before I post them, just because I really don't have the patience or tact to kill people with kindness. XD

I'm a bitter, neurodivergent, misanthropic, asshole who has lost all semblance of a filter.

I worked as a retail manager for far too long. I am never wearing that 'customer service' mask ever again.
---

I should honestly just stick to my personal socials and leave all the public forums alone.

---

Anyway, to stick on topic, I hope to one day have an Aphrodite v2 available for all.

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:43 am I don’t think it was the only rudeness, but trying to wear all the hats in a business is going to leave a few rough edges. Various things along the course of time will either suffer from them or polish them smooth.

SMOOTH IT IS

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:43 am I don’t think it was the only rudeness, but trying to wear all the hats in a business is going to leave a few rough edges. Various things along the course of time will either suffer from them or polish them smooth.

Im not on these forums, so I only see what Ben shows me, but I wish sometimes he would let his softer side through. He's too tough and Im too soft - a blessing and a curse. He will say he doesn't have time for negativity and whatnot, but we often talk about how lucky we feel to be going through this. And even more so, how much we have learned just from Spirits. We didn't expect it to get as big as it was and as a first time campaign there were some stumbles and lessons, however we have worked everything out and know going forward what changes to make to streamline the process. When I think of this project, I will think about the nights he and I will have spent back to back at our desks prepping and packaging orders with care and excitement that those recieving them will love them. It truly is a labour of love. Anyways, I just wanted to throw my perspective into the mix. We are always looking to get better.
-Layne