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Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:36 am**

CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:04 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:44 am The Limited Edition back is stunning and I could just about be sold for the solid spade pips alone. My only reservation is the club pips
Hi. Thanks for the kind comments! Could you let me know what reservations you have towards the club pip?

It is probably just me showing my age - it has been over 50yrs since I read Macbeth. Of course I see and appreciate the dagger but what is below it?

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:40 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:36 am
CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:04 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:44 am The Limited Edition back is stunning and I could just about be sold for the solid spade pips alone. My only reservation is the club pips
Hi. Thanks for the kind comments! Could you let me know what reservations you have towards the club pip?
It is probably just me showing my age - it has been over 50yrs since I read Macbeth. Of course I see and appreciate the dagger but what is below it?

It's a broken crown.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:44 am**

Hi everyone! We got a few revisions for the back design of the standard edition of the Tragoedia Macbethi Playing Cards.

Here's version 1:

Here's version 2:

And here's version 3 (My personal favourite):

Let me know what you guys think!

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:12 am**

IMO version 1, version 3 with the solid red inside looks like a sticker.
Version 2 is also amazing

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:15 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:12 am IMO version 1, version 3 with the solid red inside looks like a sticker.
Version 2 is also amazing

Sticker?

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:28 am**

Like something sticked on the back of the card

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:34 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:28 am Like something sticked on the back of the card

I personally can't see it (maybe it's confirmation bias, idk), but I'll provide this to our illustrator.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:15 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:28 am Like something sticked on the back of the card

Having talked to rest of my team, we're confident that it won't look that way when it's printed. It looks the way it does because it's a digital illustration.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:05 pm**

2 is a winner for me

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:49 pm**

GandalfPC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 12:05 pm 2 is a winner for me

Interesting. Personally, I don't like it since it's a bit too in the face, if that makes sense.

We've decided to go for the third one, since it stays consistent with the rest of the deck.

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:10 pm**

3 is tha bess

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:56 pm**

PiazzaDelivery wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:10 pm 3 is tha bess

It must be excellent if it has two s!

Posted: **Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:34 pm**

CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:40 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:36 am
CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:04 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:44 am The Limited Edition back is stunning and I could just about be sold for the solid spade pips alone. My only reservation is the club pips
Hi. Thanks for the kind comments! Could you let me know what reservations you have towards the club pip?
It is probably just me showing my age - it has been over 50yrs since I read Macbeth. Of course I see and appreciate the dagger but what is below it?
It's a broken crown.

I would change it. I cannot see that at all. I was thinking a mountain range or a weird ghost

Maybe just the dagger
We no doubt have different perceptions as I would have gone for Back 2 because it looks the best

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:14 am**

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:41 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:34 pm
CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:40 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:36 am
CallOn84 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:04 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:44 am The Limited Edition back is stunning and I could just about be sold for the solid spade pips alone. My only reservation is the club pips
Hi. Thanks for the kind comments! Could you let me know what reservations you have towards the club pip?
It is probably just me showing my age - it has been over 50yrs since I read Macbeth. Of course I see and appreciate the dagger but what is below it?
It's a broken crown.
I would change it. I cannot see that at all. I was thinking a mountain range or a weird ghost Maybe just the dagger
We no doubt have different perceptions as I would have gone for Back 2 because it looks the best

It's hard to see what you see, since I know what it's supposed to be. I guess a way to fix that is to make it not broken but whole instead, but that would detract from the meaning of it. Since crowns in the ye olden days were seen as having the same power as God, a broken crown is an oxymoron and, in some ways, the antithesis of the entire play.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:26 am**

The problem I see is that it’s a little confusing. I see what I’m supposed to see but the other pips are way cleaner. Is there a way to maybe simplify it a little so it feels less crowded? (Or maybe split the crown in half one left one right and the sword in the middle so it feels more harmonic with the pip?)
Just throwing it out there, in case your designer comes out with a couple of alternatives.
Otherwise it’s just fine, but the spades are so perfect and beautiful that one is inclined to expect more.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:09 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:26 am The problem I see is that it’s a little confusing. I see what I’m supposed to see but the other pips are way cleaner. Is there a way to maybe simplify it a little so it feels less crowded? (Or maybe split the crown in half one left one right and the sword in the middle so it feels more harmonic with the pip?)
Just throwing it out there, in case your designer comes out with a couple of alternatives.
Otherwise it’s just fine, but the spades are so perfect and beautiful that one is inclined to expect more.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be discussing it with the team to see alternatives that can be implemented.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:19 am**

CallOn84 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:09 am
jasonx73it wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:26 am The problem I see is that it’s a little confusing. I see what I’m supposed to see but the other pips are way cleaner. Is there a way to maybe simplify it a little so it feels less crowded? (Or maybe split the crown in half one left one right and the sword in the middle so it feels more harmonic with the pip?)
Just throwing it out there, in case your designer comes out with a couple of alternatives.
Otherwise it’s just fine, but the spades are so perfect and beautiful that one is inclined to expect more.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll be discussing it with the team to see alternatives that can be implemented.

Just trying to help of course as this is looking pretty damn special
I really believe if you whacked the club pic on a clipboard and asked 20 people walking past your door, I do not believe 10 of them would say a crown

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:34 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:19 am
CallOn84 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:09 am
jasonx73it wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:26 am The problem I see is that it’s a little confusing. I see what I’m supposed to see but the other pips are way cleaner. Is there a way to maybe simplify it a little so it feels less crowded? (Or maybe split the crown in half one left one right and the sword in the middle so it feels more harmonic with the pip?)
Just throwing it out there, in case your designer comes out with a couple of alternatives.
Otherwise it’s just fine, but the spades are so perfect and beautiful that one is inclined to expect more.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll be discussing it with the team to see alternatives that can be implemented.
Just trying to help of course as this is looking pretty damn special
I really believe if you whacked the club pic on a clipboard and asked 20 people walking past your door, I do not believe 10 of them would say a crown

That's a fair assessment. We're still crunching through ideas. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:34 pm**

I mean, it is a Macbeth deck. With the theme in mind, I think it makes it pretty clear that its a crown.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:41 am**

We did a revision on the club pip to, hopefully, make it look more symmetrical. Thoughts?

Standard Edition

Limited Edition

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:31 am**

Well it is an improvement, imo. Still the other three are in a different ballpark.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:14 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:31 am Well it is an improvement, imo. Still the other three are in a different ballpark.

Clubs is a difficult one, since it's shaped uniquely. Overcomplicating it would not be ideal, so I think we're going to leave it with this new version.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:58 am**

jasonx73it wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:31 am Well it is an improvement, imo. Still the other three are in a different ballpark.

Not much of one. TBH
It looks more like someone reading a newspaper or a candelabra
I don't think it is even geometrically in 'the crown' ballpark

What is the hurry - get it right (please)

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:13 am**

This poster made me think - what about 3 witches? These 3 almost form a club shape

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:19 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:13 am This poster made me think - what about 3 witches?

Clubs represent the court of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth, so it wouldn't fit thematically. Additionally, there's an argument to be made that it would fit Spades more, since it represents the supernatural, darkness, and witchcraft.

Furthermore, trying to fit three witches in that kind of space limitation will be very complicated.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:20 am**

Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:58 am
jasonx73it wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:31 am Well it is an improvement, imo. Still the other three are in a different ballpark.
Not much of one. TBH
It looks more like someone reading a newspaper or a candelabra
I don't think it is even geometrically in 'the crown' ballpark

What is the hurry - get it right (please)

I can't unsee that now lol

We're not hurrying, we're actually ahead of schedule based on the speed of our illustrator, it's just that the clubs poses a size challenge that is making me scratch my head a bit.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:24 am**

Good luck. I will keep thinking about it too

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:34 am**

CallOn84 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:19 am
Honeybee wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:13 am This poster made me think - what about 3 witches?
Clubs represent the court of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth, so it wouldn't fit thematically. Additionally, there's an argument to be made that it would fit Spades more, since it represents the supernatural, darkness, and witchcraft.

Furthermore, trying to fit three witches in that kind of space limitation will be very complicated.

Right, I had not thought thematically
As for fit - I thought whoever did the spade 'could do just about anything'

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:41 am**

CallOn84 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:14 am
Clubs is a difficult one, since it's shaped uniquely. Overcomplicating it would not be ideal, so I think we're going to leave it with this new version.

I would say that “overcomplicated” is the current status cause it’s very crowded in there with crown and sword. I’m sorry I can only bring criticism but I wish I’d known Macbeth better to think of a solution.
It’s that everything I’ve seen so far hit all the right notes and that pip is slightly out of tune.

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