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Hey guys, I have started designing a new deck that I'm calling kelidoscope. I would like your input on the backs and the fan at the moment. Tell me if you like it, or what you don't like about it, and be as specific as possible please.
I will upload more pictures as I progress in creating the faces and tuckbox.

Very nice, Mady! If I were you I would get a test print / prototype done by MPC to check out just how much detail you can get without losing the really fine lines. Sometimes you can push it a little too far with respect to the ability for the production facilities to be 100% true to your design.

Using the 'full bleed' edge-to-edge backs for this one will look great!

Thanks mike! Funny you should mention doing a full bleed on the backs, as that is exactly what I was going for. lol

For this I will be printing out a single deck with mpc to see what it looks like, like you said. This deck is going to be flashy, I'm going to try to get these options for it from MPC:

They will be printed on 310gsm linen cardstock, with the high gloss and full color print options. So I can make the pips shine along with other things on the card faces that are yet to be determined. These cards will come in a custom high gloss tuckbox with a gold deck seal as well. So they will be fancier then my elegance deck.

Jester318 wrote:Thanks mike! Funny you should mention doing a full bleed on the backs, as that is exactly what I was going for. lol

For this I will be printing out a single deck with mpc to see what it looks like, like you said. This deck is going to be flashy, I'm going to try to get these options for it from MPC:

They will be printed on 310gsm linen cardstock, with the high gloss and full color print options. So I can make the pips shine along with other things on the card faces that are yet to be determined. These cards will come in a custom high gloss tuckbox with a gold deck seal as well. So they will be fancier then my elegance deck.

MPC does good deck production these days, likely better than Zappo.com, since both use digital presses (MPC can do offset, but again they require a minimum of 1000 decks for that). MPC's is an HP "Indigo" digital press. They also can gild decks now, for a very reasonable price. Of course they're not fancy, it's done using heat flashing copper-aluminum alloy tape-like foil. Gold or silver foil on tuck boxes, also - not certain where the minimum order quantity is for those, but you can check online at their website.

As I remember, you can get gilded decks for 100 copies at around $12/deck. I think it's actually $7.90/deck for up to 500 - the price for 250+

@Mike

Well I am more then likely just going to stick with MPC from now on with my decks, because I want each one to be limited to about 350 max of each type. That and its easier to just deal with one company in the manufacturing/printing of playing cards, more then one and it gets confusing really quick. I don't know if you saw my previous campaign on kickstarter but I ordered a prototype deck of muertos obsidian and I have it now, and to be honest the quality is fantastic imo for both the tuck and the cards themselves. When I opened the parcel I could not believe how accurate the print was! all cards were centered perfectly and almost no detail was lost. Now when I relaunch that deck, I have something real I can show people.

Again thanks for your input mike, gold and silver hot stamping for tuckboxes has a minimum of 100 decks required to print at MPC, according to their website.

Ok so here is what I have for the tuck box. Again I would like to hear from people on this design, I see that people are checking this thread out but are not responding. Please help me out here guys
Tell me what your thoughts are!

A note about the design: All of the black areas ( the vector designs and text ) are going to be glossy embossed by MPC.

What do the court cards look like?

Just be warned, getting 300+ people to pledge for an MPC deck, for USPCC/EPCC/Legends prices will be difficult.

Jester318 wrote:Ok so here is what I have for the tuck box. Again I would like to hear from people on this design, I see that people are checking this thread out but are not responding. Please help me out here guys !

That number is a bit misleading because we don't require people to register to read the forums here, only if they want to contribute. Most of the time we have about an equal number of members and guests online, although of course that varies both ways. My only point is that usually about half of those people it shows have looked at the thread can't respond because they're not registered members.

@TG

I have not gotten around to making the court cards yet, I will more then likely start working on the card faces tomorrow.

Do you suggest that I use a different company than MPC? Is there another company that can make under 1000 decks that uses better printers/cardstock?

Mike Ratledge wrote:

Jester318 wrote:Ok so here is what I have for the tuck box. Again I would like to hear from people on this design, I see that people are checking this thread out but are not responding. Please help me out here guys !

That number is a bit misleading because we don't require people to register to read the forums here, only if they want to contribute. Most of the time we have about an equal number of members and guests online, although of course that varies both ways. My only point is that usually about half of those people it shows have looked at the thread can't respond because they're not registered members.

Not only that, but there are, at all times, search engine bots running around and "reading" threads all over the place. I don't know for sure, but I would assume that these also add to the "times read" statistic.

On topic: I think the backs are interesting, although as a collector who is also a cardist and enjoys decks that produce colorful displays/fans, I would probably not back an MPC deck because the quality just isn't there (and the price is still relatively high). But if you absolutely have to print less than 1000 decks, then I guess there isn't a better alternative (that I know of).

Not a fan of the back because I like clean defined backs. I know it's supposed to have a kaleidoscope look which it does.

Tuck looks too busy with all the black curvy lines on edges all around. Not sure how to fix for my like.

Interested in courts/pips too.

Thanks for your input, magik and rich. I guess that 1000 decks isn't out of the question, If I were to fund the KS project correctly. I'll look into Expert Playing Cards first.

Jester318 wrote:Thanks for your input, magik and rich. I guess that 1000 decks isn't out of the question, If I were to fund the KS project correctly. I'll look into Expert Playing Cards first.

Your grammar above makes this comment confusing. You will need to state how many decks you intend to print and which company you will go with BEFORE starting a Kickstarter campaign. This information will help people that might pledge. Without this information, you're going to have a hard time. Don't anticipate having a project fund without this information.

@ TG, Yes I am aware that I need to figure that out before I start a project. I was basically saying that I could go higher than 350 decks in total If I wanted to, and that 350 decks isn't a number that I MUST have on my next KS project.

The only reason I wanted to do less than 1000 decks was to make them a bit more rare and maybe a bit more sought after by my backers, as it were.

Jester318 wrote:@ TG, Yes I am aware that I need to figure that out before I start a project. I was basically saying that I could go higher than 350 decks in total If I wanted to, and that 350 decks isn't a number that I MUST have on my next KS project.

The only reason I wanted to do less than 1000 decks was to make them a bit more rare and maybe a bit more sought after by my backers, as it were.

There haven't been many successful MPC based projects. You'll have a hard time pricing decks under what other artists do when printing 1000+ decks with USPCC, EPCC or Legends. And the quality of the cards isn't as good. If you are coming from an angle of rarity is a big selling point, you're going to have a tough time.

The most successful MPC Kickstarter projects are done by MPC themselves, and recently, they've been offering as many bells and whistles as possible. And they are trying to sell with as much volume as possible.

In your research, what other successful MPC manufactured Kickstarter projects can you name? I can't think of any, and that telling.

I really hope you've done your research. It strikes me that you're coming from the position that:
1. You've made a back design you like for playing cards.
2. You want to put out a limited number of these cards
3. You have plans.

I suggest:

Continue improving the back design, make a few court cards and show them to the community. If you get a positive response, then consider researching more, finishing up the cards and moving forward. If you get a negative response, consider scrapping it and working on something else.

I will take your suggestions to heart TG, Thank you for going out of your way to help me out.

My questions to you now are,

Why do you think that people don't like "busy" card designs?
Do people generally not like card designs that are really colorful?
What do most people like to see on card faces? A lot of detail? Minimal detail?

With elegance I tried going minimalist on the card faces as shown here:
Do you think people like this type of design? Do you like it? If these cards were made by the USPCC would you pledge for them on kickstarter? and if not, why?

Jester318 wrote: My questions to you now are,

Why do you think that people don't like "busy" card designs?
Do people generally not like card designs that are really colorful?
What do most people like to see on card faces? A lot of detail? Minimal detail?

With elegance I tried going minimalist on the card faces as shown here:

aces.jpg

Do you think people like this type of design? Do you like it? If these cards were made by the USPCC would you pledge for them on kickstarter? and if not, why?

What you've shown so far looks like something Collectable Playing Cards would put out. They are often hit or miss, and if they fund, usually just barely.

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/2104052526/created" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can't please everyone and everyone has a different take on what interests them. I would say super colorful and busy are not in my wheelhouse. I think your Aces are way too busy on the corners, the actual colors at the edge don't work at all and would be impossible to make. I like the pips. Tradition is that the Ace of Spades in the card to show off with, and you've done nothing special there.

Court cards and back design make or break custom decks.

Most people's buying decisions usually revolve around: Do I like the art? If yes, who is it made by? If USPCC/EPCC or Legends, then how much? Or price then manufacturer.

Lastly, you can't ask if these cards were made by USPCC would they pledge, because you've shown a back design and aces. I think you need to show some more. And even then, with this being your first project, people will be hesitant. You really need to wow people.

@ TG, I think you may have misunderstood where the aces are from. Those aces are from elegance, which is a different deck altogether. I put them up to give you an example, to ask you what you like and dislike about face cards. The rest of your info was good, so thank you.

This may seem like it is an uneducated question,( because it is ) but why would someone want the same design over and over again? If you are a collector of playing cards, would you not want something that looks unique and different?

"Unique and different" could border on radical and indistinguishably. The Elegance cards you showed are bad as @TG explained. The courts are even worse to me since they are shrunken down standard courts (losing detail) with a neon stripe to split the court which is unnecessary.

It's all a matter of personal taste. I like the Playing Arts decks because they are unique art cards but I wouldn't play a serious game with them. There is a need for standardization across the number cards.

If the courts and pips are custom and carry the same design theme through each suit I would be more interested in thinking about that deck. Play-ability is the ultimate to getting backers in my opinion.

@Richk, can you explain what you mean by " there is a need for standardization across the number cards " ?

Jester318 wrote:This may seem like it is an uneducated question,( because it is ) but why would someone want the same design over and over again? If you are a collector of playing cards, would you not want something that looks unique and different?

It's a fair question, to which I think the answer is simply: you can't expect people who collect things, an already illogical habit, to behave logically. It comes down to taste as well as just personal decisions, neither of which are based fully in logic. Some collectors go very specific, while others go wider but may have other personal preferences for the decks they collect. The subjectivity of the art plays a big part, of course, but some are cardists, magicians, card players etc that have specific criteria they look for. And some have just decided to collect green decks, because they like the color green

@magikfingerz,

Thank you for that informative response. What your saying makes a lot of sense to me. So perhaps if I were to make a design that a bunch of people liked ( maybe one from each of the types of people that collect cards, aka a cardist, a collector, and an average person just looking for a cool deck of cards ), then it would do better on kickstarter. ( along with using a reputable printing company. )

Jester318 wrote: So perhaps if I were to make a design that a bunch of people liked ( maybe one from each of the types of people that collect cards, aka a cardist, a collector, and an average person just looking for a cool deck of cards ), then it would do better on kickstarter. ( along with using a reputable printing company. )

Calculate less. Put your work out there. The business stuff can come after.

Jester318 wrote:@magikfingerz,

Thank you for that informative response. What your saying makes a lot of sense to me. So perhaps if I were to make a design that a bunch of people liked ( maybe one from each of the types of people that collect cards, aka a cardist, a collector, and an average person just looking for a cool deck of cards ), then it would do better on kickstarter. ( along with using a reputable printing company. )

I have to agree with TG. If you try to plan the "best" or "most-selling" type of design, you'll just spend a lot of time on something that may not work out at all (can you successfully anticipate something illogical? Not likely). I think the best course of action is to create what YOU want to create; a design you are passionate about, in a style you are good at. Then, you can tweak it in smaller ways to appeal to as many people as possible (two-way back design, usability in card games, and so on).

If what you mean is to have some kind of focus group to provide feedback on your design, then this forum is basically that

@magikfingerz,

Thanks for the info. Probably a good idea to just go with what I think looks interesting, then asking what others think.

In my research on kickstarter I have found that decks with some sort of textured theme do really well. So I made this to see what you guys think of it.

So here is something a bit illogical:
Stained glass looking pips on a rock textured background. What are your thoughts on this design, everyone?

Also, If you were to try and pick a background texture for this type of pip, what would you pick and why?

Jester318 wrote:@magikfingerz,

Thanks for the info. Probably a good idea to just go with what I think looks interesting, then asking what others think.

In my research on kickstarter I have found that decks with some sort of textured theme do really well. So I made this to see what you guys think of it.

So here is something a bit illogical:

New cards front.jpg

Stained glass looking pips on a rock textured background. What are your thoughts on this design, everyone?

Also, If you were to try and pick a background texture for this type of pip, what would you pick and why?

You're contradicting yourself here Jester. First you're saying "go with what I think looks interesting" then you're researching KS for design ideas. Design what appeals to you then worry about changes to improve it.

@Richk,

Alrighty then. What do you think of the design though?

Textured backgrounds suck. Thumbs down.

Spade pip is interesting. I like bigger pips though. There is no information on the Ace. It looks unfinished.

Have you designed a court card yet? That's something that shows the kind of skill the designer has. Waiting for that now. It seems like this thread has slowed down and is going in circles.

I agree with @TG about the Spade, bigger, deck or company name worked into or under the Spade. No texture. Show us a court card.

You're overthinking things. Design what you like, show us, have a thick skin for comments on how to improve the design from us (since we want you to succeed), try suggested changes. You won't please 100% of people ever so don't keep thinking like that.

Alright here are the queens, what do you guys think? I know you said no background textures, but plain white did not look as good to me.

I used 3d rendered models here.