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So, this project has actually been funding for a little over a week and when I first saw it on KS, I didn't really pay it much attention (and I'm not sure many others around here did either because there wasn't a thread already started for this deck) but, now that I have had some more time to look the project over, it's actually raising funds for a pretty unique and noble cause - to spread awareness and promote The Pig Preserve, a pig rescue/sanctuary located in Tennessee where the creator and his family volunteer to help care for the little piggies [BACON]

According to the sanctuary's site, The Pig Preserve takes in pigs of all types (from farm to miniature, to potbelly, to even wild boar as this deck's been named after) from all across the US; pigs that have been surrendered, abandoned, abused, neglected, experimented on in labs and even those that have escaped from factory farms and have been saved from slaughter. It's definitely unique work that they're doing and, as someone who has spent quite a few years volunteering time at an animal shelter, I can attest that it's no easy job caring for animals that have no home of their own. Yet, as much passion as many of the volunteers working at such organizations have to so selflessly devote themselves to such causes, there never ceases to be a need for support to raise awareness and donations to cover costs such as food, supplies, vet bills, etc.

And, as many of you may have seen across various social media platforms, there's been an outpour of support in the form of promotion and praise from even the biggest designers, producers, magicians and names in the industry to help spread the word of this project and I too think it's one most def deserving of some UC love <3

I mean, com'on people! just look at those cute little (and not so little) piggies! OINK OINK! lol [BACON]






more adorable pics can be seen on the sanctuary's IG

So, regardless of whether or not the particular design of this deck is for you, please still consider taking a moment of time to look over the project and/or The Pig Preserve's site, which you can find here, to find out more about the sanctuary and what you can do to help the pigs! [BACON]

and if nothing else, at least try to spread the word to others so they too may consider taking a look - do it for the pigs! [BACON]

A good cause, but doesn't mean the deck is good.

Basically, another of those lazy mirrored single image decks trying to copy the Fontaine touch. I wouldn't even be surprised if this were offered as a variation of the KEYCARD deck campaign. I've seen a bunch of these concept designs on Instagram, and it's just fast food card creation. There's even one that's a water tap mirrored, and a bunch of kids are just telling them to produce it. So no, I prefer the Axolotl deck than this.

Also one big NOPE for me: Madison brotherhood.

It sounds like a great cause but the deck is just lazy and I'm not digging the Daniel Madison stench. I'd rather donate money directly to the rescue.

Decknowledgy wrote:Also one big NOPE for me: Madison brotherhood.

CupcakeBaron wrote:It sounds like a great cause but the deck is just lazy and I'm not digging the Daniel Madison stench. I'd rather donate money directly to the rescue.

yep, I'm actually right there with y'all in that regard; but you can always consider donating directly to the sanctuary as CupcakeBaron suggested - I'm sure any and every little bit helps

Sorry, but I will never buy a deck that is even remotely attached to DM (I refuse to say his name). Still fighting to get my money back from that phony.

I agree about donating to the rescue directly that would be the better option.

Here's MagicOrthodoxy's promo review:

If they can manage to use Madison's fame to raise money for an animal sanctuary, I've got nothing bad to say

Just had a little chat with @billdavismagic, and to clear things up, here's what I got:

1. The boar design was fully his own as a first-time designer, so I take back my words for a lazy design. The polygonal boar head is decent for a first-timer. (Although still not my taste; maybe for others)

2. Having DM's face as one of the kings is only because of admiration and approval after getting a personal chance to know him. Before that, DM had also left some sour taste with him due to the bad communications with orders and shipping. So the only real attachment with DM is only the right to use the portrait on the king, nothing else with the deck. Bill did not ask DM to do the review for him; DM did it on his own. Only the Magic Orthodoxy review was kind of an agreement.

3. The deck is truly meant for the pig sanctuary, and because just by chance magic is the love of Bill, the magic connotation is there in the deck.

I'm still not a fan of the deck design, but I sure have to give credit after understanding what really stands behind the deck. I'll be happy to donate to the sanctuary as that's the true purpose of all of this. I take back my words for quick judging about the project's connection with DM, thanks to Bill for a friendly and patient explanation!

billdavismagic wrote:

CupcakeBaron wrote:It sounds like a great cause but the deck is just lazy and I'm not digging the Daniel Madison stench. I'd rather donate money directly to the rescue.

I'm sorry you don't like my deck. Please please PLEASE donate to the rescue!!!

To your credit the boar's head itself is fine but I strongly feel that you could have done more with the deck. Even if you didn't do much with the courts(you could have at least done a recolor) the back design and tuck just needed a LOT more love. As is they are very Fontaine-esque which is not a good thing

I feel like I'm obligated to at least chime in. I am BaconWise after all...
I love the tuck. The tail on the back is simply adorable and the cause connected to the deck is pretty great. I typically collect fully-custom decks so this will be a pass but I dig the goal. Good luck to Bill on this one.

CupcakeBaron wrote:

billdavismagic wrote:

CupcakeBaron wrote:It sounds like a great cause but the deck is just lazy and I'm not digging the Daniel Madison stench. I'd rather donate money directly to the rescue.

I'm sorry you don't like my deck. Please please PLEASE donate to the rescue!!!

To your credit the boar's head itself is fine but I strongly feel that you could have done more with the deck. Even if you didn't do much with the courts(you could have at least done a recolor) the back design and tuck just needed a LOT more love. As is they are very Fontaine-esque which is not a good thing

I remember typing up this post and I also distinctly remember changing my mind about actually submitting it so I am very confused right now rofl. I must be losing it or something.

The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

If there was a version without all the magicians faces on the courts I might back this. Looks like it will fund but if it somehow doesnt and you relaunch I would love to see a version with just standard courts, or better yet customized to give them pig faces.

Also maybe make the red of the red suits pink like the color of the word Joker on the jokers just to make it a little bit more custom. As it stands despite liking the cause I cant back this deck. Putting peoples faces on the court cards is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to custom decks and the reason I mostly stopped buying ellusionist decks.

billdavismagic wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

That's adorable. This is my first deck and first campaign, and I've worked hard on the design to get the entire deck as I like it for a LONG time now, putting in time, effort, and love. It shows too, as it was funded at 50% in the first TWO DAYS! "Lazy." LMFAO. Question: How many decks have you made? Do tell.

Wow, I haven't been here long, but I'm pretty sure that's not the tone to take when someone dislikes your first deck.

Listen, learn and make it better next time.

Good luck with the KS, cheers.

billdavismagic wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

That's adorable. This is my first deck and first campaign, and I've worked hard on the design to get the entire deck as I like it for a LONG time now, putting in time, effort, and love. It shows too, as it was funded at 50% in the first TWO DAYS! "Lazy." LMFAO. Question: How many decks have you made? Do tell. [emoji38]

Oh shit. Here we go. Buckle up lol!

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

billdavismagic wrote:Thank you to those who did support the deck or donated to the cause!

While I understand the issue some have with DM, and actually had the same experience from orders placed over the course of a year prior to becoming a close friend, I was just put off that others' experiences were held against me personally. As you may have seen, I explained a lot of this to Decknowledgy.

I understand some may not like my deck and that's fine - everyone is not always going to like everything. I just thank those who donated directly to the preserve and that's really what this is all about and I can't tell you how much that means. I have a V2 in the works so you're likely to not like that either, but down the road I plan to finalize another deck (completely unrelated) that I've been working on for over a year (actually my first one) but that's been but on the backburner due to copyright issues.

I really hope people don't judge me and see my heart and intent - I'm just a guy starting out with my very first deck and my very first Kicstarter campaign so any and all support is appreciated, truly. Otherwise, if you're interested, you might at least stroll to the Updates section of my campaign where I talk in some of the updates about the pigs. There's even one particulary heartwarming story about "Poppy" and if you did donate to the rescue, you help make things like this possible. Again thanks for taking the time to read this and at least giving me a chance, those of you who do.

Nothing but love - Bill

I love seeing creators interacting with collectors on UC. It takes balls and I can appreciate the courage it takes to stand by a project among a group of collectors with discerning tastes. While the deck doesn't appeal to me as a mostly standard deck, I will definitely keep an eye on your project and future launches.

The UC community can be very helpful if you allow it to be and if you take some suggestions to heart, that can be a lot of goodwill towards future decks as well (UC is a decent pool of potential backers!). While some of us may have different approaches to criticism, I think we all deep-down see the potential for your creation and love to see a new design succeed. It only increases the chance that more people will become hooked on the craft and on collecting.

When this thing funds, be sure to communicate as well with your backers as you have with us on this forum and you will do well for yourself. Things go wrong on KS all the time (not saying you will have issues) but open communication is worth more to me than a deadline. Good luck, homie, and I look forward to your success.

P.S. I agree with JuFin: illustrated pig heads on the courts would be hilarious - perhaps for a future release?

billdavismagic wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

That's adorable. This is my first deck and first campaign, and I've worked hard on the design to get the entire deck as I like it for a LONG time now, putting in time, effort, and love. It shows too, as it was funded at 50% in the first TWO DAYS! "Lazy." LMFAO. Question: How many decks have you made? Do tell.

When you put something out into the world you have to be prepared to receive some level of criticism. I get that it can be hard to have people looking on your work unfavorably but going on the defensive won't help you in the long run. Take it on the chin and strive to find out what exactly it is that people don't like so hopefully in the future your decks can be more successful rather than getting bent out of shape. There are far more talented and successful creators on here and I can guarantee you that none of them would respond in the manner that you did.

In closing I suggest you put your big girl panties on and try harder next time.

BaconWise wrote:

billdavismagic wrote:I understand some may not like my deck and that's fine - everyone is not always going to like everything.

While some of us may have different approaches to criticism, I think we all deep-down see the potential for your creation and love to see a new design succeed.

Yep, everyone here just wants to see the best possible decks We may not all have much tact, though

billdavismagic wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

That's adorable. This is my first deck and first campaign, and I've worked hard on the design to get the entire deck as I like it for a LONG time now, putting in time, effort, and love. It shows too, as it was funded at 50% in the first TWO DAYS! "Lazy." LMFAO. Question: How many decks have you made? Do tell.

By that same logic, only film directors are qualified to criticize movies, only published authors may be literary critics, etc? How convenient when artists only allow for self-criticism, it insulates them from hearing anything they don't like.

I've made zero decks, just FYI. Still, I think I am eminently qualified to speak to what qualities in a deck I would spend money on. I'm also qualified to say that I probably wouldn't buy a deck from someone petty enough to blow up at a collector who criticized them regardless of how good the cards are. This is despite the fact that you'll rarely find someone who holds animal welfare as dear to their heart as I do.

On that note, I wish you luck. Animals need every friend they can get.

billdavismagic wrote:

TwoPiece wrote:The design sucks. A good cause, sure, but that doesn't excuse the crappy deck.

If you have passion about something, then prove it by designing something that shows it. This is just lazy.

That's adorable. This is my first deck and first campaign, and I've worked hard on the design to get the entire deck as I like it for a LONG time now, putting in time, effort, and love. It shows too, as it was funded at 50% in the first TWO DAYS! "Lazy." LMFAO. Question: How many decks have you made? Do tell.

That's one way to lose a potential backer for any project you launch for the rest of your life.

I don't have time to design playing card decks. That's why I collect the good ones. Your deck does not fit the criteria. If you don't accept that you have a lot to learn and room to grow - then if this even funds ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT - it may be your last.

I'm an automotive design engineer, so I know a thing or two about art, and putting passion into a project. I know that it's difficult to avoid being a product of your environment, but pigs aren't a good species to learn from...

My opinion on this deck. I like the pig done on the backs, but it kinda ended there. Had I seen custom courts with that same stylization, preferably with pig faces, I would likely feel differently. These days it is tough to get me to back a semi-custom deck (not impossible -ex The Parlour coming out).

I appreciate that this deck comes from a passion you have. Something you volunteer your time. Oddly, I have friends that are ranchers and for them pigs are a problem. Sometimes a dangerous problem.

I wish you all the best and hope the project funds.

I backed this. Bill seems like a stand-up guy who I think has his heart in the right place. Yes the design is simplistic but I don't think its bad. He asked me to give the deck a review but under the time constraints (his project is so close to the end) and my current slate of work I wasn't able to oblige.

billdavismagic wrote:I was speaking to him calling my deck "lazy", because, having not yourselves made decks, you cannot in any way, shape or form know what goes INTO making them. That's a fact - that you know nothing of the process. That's not blowing up and neither was what I said blowing up - it was stating a fact. That he hasn't made decks so cannot know.

Complete nonsense. The process of making a deck is transparently available to view on this very forum, with numerous artists and designers participating. It is entirely possible for a layman to get a good idea of how the sausage is made with a bit of reading. To say nothing of the fact that printing companies are likewise transparent about sales, anyone can look into what it takes to print a deck. Which leaves primarily the art.

There are only two custom pieces of artwork that I can see: a boar's head with only slight detail, used for one of the jokers, doubled for the backs, and again used on the tuck, and a rather simple boar's tail, used for the other joker and repeated for the tuck. Courts and pips are standard. So again, just two pieces of original artwork, and frankly it's more like 1.5 pieces of art, I don't think you get a full pat on the back for that little tail (and we're not going to pretend that a standard AoS with your initials is even art).

By contrast, a deck with custom courts, backs, jokers and AoS easily racks up 15-16 pieces of art, 13 of which are expected to have rotational symmetry in a pleasing fashion, a difficult thing to accomplish that you have completely sidestepped. It may also have additional art for the pips, tuck, extra cards, or even be a transformation deck with essentially 54 separate pieces of art on the faces alone. The real kicker is that these decks commonly cost $15, sometimes even for decks with foiling and metallic inks, exactly what you're asking for a deck with two-ish pieces of art, almost literally the least you could possibly get away with calling "custom" anything. Indeed, one might ask if you fully appreciate the work that goes into making a custom deck of cards.

Truly, compare what you've done with other artists who have produced a quality product. Do you think your deck stands comparison with other $15 decks? If you can see the difference, then perhaps you can also see how a collector would view your deck as a lazy effort for the asking price. Standard courts are what I expect on Bicycles that I buy at $16 a brick.

Wow Bill, you definitely care more about the pigs than what about members are saying here. That's a FACT. lol

billdavismagic wrote:RE: prices - Wrong. Decks are $10 each. $5 shipping per deck is included in the $15 total.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/65 ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This deck not only has art that makes yours look like an embarrassment, not only does it have two variants of each court card plus an extra king variant, it ships from Denmark for about the same total price. So you admit that you're not only screwing people with your lazy, one-drawing deck, but screwing them again on shipping?

Done with the nonsense questions now.

What question is asked? I am stating: your deck is lazily produced garbage, and you're not someone worth supporting, evidenced by the fact that your response to constructive criticism is to literally tell me to go suck a dick.

Bill, I think you are missing Outsider's point. He was trying to help you understand why the deck is being called "lazy" by giving an objective valuation of your deck.
Honestly, you should read some of the comments on other minimalist decks like NOCs. Much of the criticism is much harsher.
I know that your deck is funding and that is your goal but a little humility can help you a lot in the future if you continue to produce decks. Many of the members here are seasoned deck collectors and their opinions do have great value. Sometime we post "lazy" comments because with the volume of decks being produced, we don't take the time to mince our words.
Outsider actually took a lot of time to explain why the deck is getting the negative feedback. If so many people are saying the same thing, there might be some truth to is. Anyway, wish you the best!

KT52 wrote:Bill, I think you are missing Outsider's point. He was trying to help you understand why the deck is being called "lazy" by giving an objective valuation of your deck.
Honestly, you should read some of the comments on other minimalist decks like NOCs. Much of the criticism is much harsher.
I know that your deck is funding and that is your goal but a little humility can help you a lot in the future if you continue to produce decks. Many of the members here are seasoned deck collectors and their opinions do have great value. Sometime we post "lazy" comments because with the volume of decks being produced, we don't take the time to mince our words.
Outsider actually took a lot of time to explain why the deck is getting the negative feedback. If so many people are saying the same thing, there might be some truth to is. Anyway, wish you the best!

Why waste any more time on this chap? It is abundantly clear that he only wants to hear praises and not take any criticism of his “art”. With that level of arrogance, I would not even bother trying to engage.

Magic Tapp wrote:
Why waste any more time on this chap? It is abundantly clear that he only wants to hear praises and not take any criticism of his “art”. With that level of arrogance, I would not even bother trying to engage.

*shurg, I think Bill is new on this forum and probably still adjusting to the types of comments. I think ego often gets the best of us and its never too late to change your mind and be humble instead.

I agree with KT52. Honestly, I don't think that he isn't listening to the comments. He has taken the time to respond. If you call his deck crap, don't be surprised if he doesn't like the comment. I wouldn't. I am just imagining TwoPiece responding to some of our comments if they were lodged at him.

If I get his general response and put it in pretty and flowery language it would say:

"Gee folks, thanks for all of the comments about my project. I am glad many of you like the cause, which is where my passion for this deck comes from. I would be excited if you would just donate to the Pig Reserve in Jamestown, TN. It is a wonderful place and needs your support. As for the deck, I understand that some would like things differently, but I designed it based on my vision. It is a vision that has gotten good support that I am happy with. The project looks like it will fund, which is great. I understand it is not for everyone, that is cool. As I work on future projects I will consider positive feedback on this project to make improvements and hopefully broaden the appeal of those future projects."

Bradius wrote:Honestly, I don't think that he isn't listening to the comments. He has taken the time to respond.

He has:

billdavismagic wrote:Your opinion is insignificant

Truly, I appreciate giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but this isn't a lack of flowerly language. Mr. Davis has gotten straight to the point. His one and only interest is getting his money.