Quality Check: WJPCC, the early years
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:29 am
This is a cross post, originally posted here:
https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p134520
I've relocated it here because I'd like to see this updated with comparisons to more recent WJPCC decks, so I decided to tease this out of it's previous thread. As more of our favorite card designers are using WJPCC, I feel this is particularly relevant.
--------------------------------------
This is going to be a long post. You have been warned.
So, since I've posted here and elsewhere comments about various WJPCC decks in my collection, Sunish asked if I would share my thoughts about how the Bharata Series 2 deck compares to other WJPCC decks I've handled.
Toward that end, I decided to reacquaint myself with the decks in my collection that were manufactured by WJPCC. I picked the low-hanging fruit (ie, the ones which came immediately to mind), which are:
* RJ Tomlinson's Civil Unrest Gettysburg
* Montenzi's Haere Mai
* Montenzi's Hello Tiki
* Montenzi's NEO LTD
* Elephant Playing Cards' Elephants
* Guru's Bharata Series 2
I might have some others in my collection, but they elude me right at the moment.
One thing that all of these projects have in common is that they were all created by people whose work I truly appreciate. All of them have worked with other manufacturers, so there has also been an opportunity to compare their work as produced by multiple shops.
The first WJPCC project that I recall backing was the Civil Unrest Gettysburg series, when Robert Tomlinson decided to embark upon finding a manufacturer who was easier to work with than EPCC/LPCC and USPCC. The result was interesting. The card stock was amazingly sturdy, but the finish made for a deck that was clumpy and mostly bereft of "glide." The feel wasn't unpleasant (the way, I'm sad to say, NPCC's decks have tended to be for me, or Cartamuni's souvenir decks or MPC's smooth finish decks), and so I inserted one of these decks into my boys' and my rotation of nightly card game decks. Gotta say, the Gettysburg deck really took a beating, and still stayed true. After quite a bit of time in the rotation, the cards still have snap and the deck looks like it's received far less abuse than it actually has. Sturdy as hell, even if it was unable to fan even right out of the box.
Next came Montenzi's Haere Mai, which had full bleed backs and colors that really pop. And, wow, did these bad boys fan perfectly out of the box. Much thinner and lighter than Gettysburg, these cards were light and springy, and I swear the deck I opened would hold its own against any of my favorites printed by EPCC/LPCC. While these were sturdy, they weren't stiff like Gettysburg. I was so happy with this deck, I wanted to see more of my favorite creators going to WJPCC for their manufacturing.
The follow-up to Haere Mai, Hello Tiki, didn't fare as well. At least, the deck that I opened up. It fanned... okay-ish out of the box. Slightly stiffer stock. These were fine, I suppose, and certainly no worse than some output from EPCC/LPCC, but also no where near as good as some of the best from EPCC/LPCC. As far as manufacturing quality goes, this deck was a step backwards from Haere Mai. Not terrible, not by a long shot. And, nowhere near as clumpy as Gettysburg. But... yeah. They were okay. Great design, fine printing, kinda decent finish, and kinda decent stock, but... nothing to wow me the way its predecessor was.
Montenzi's NEO LTD feels like a half-step between Hello Tiki and Haere Mai. This one also has full bleed backs, which I love, but these backs reveal slight imperfections in the cutting registration that Haere Mai did not. These fan almost perfectly right out of the box, and they have a fascinating feel to them. Even if we classify this as only a half-step better than Hello Tiki, I *far* prefer NEO LTD to Hello Tiki in terms of manufacturing quality, and they only just barely fall short of the perfection that Haere Mai attained.
I want to pause here for a moment and re-iterate that all of these decks, I picked up because I truly appreciate the work done by their creators. In fact, one thing that all of these creators has in common (in addition to excellent design work) is their interest in taking bold risks to see what they can accomplish with their cards. Ben Jones of Elephant Playing Cards did some very innovative work with his Prism series (using "embossed" elements on the cards) and Pipmen (especially his Pipmen World design, which took his semi-transformation decks to a whole new level), and I was very interested to see how his approach to a "standard" deck would work out.
Unfortunately, the problem with the Elephants deck is WJPCC's work. This deck has a sturdiness and stiffness that is very much like the Gettysburg deck, but the clumpiness of the finish is even slightly worse than Gettysburg. This deck, manufacturing-wise, was not just a few steps back to where they started (for me), but perhaps a half a step back past that. It's one thing when the cards are a little clumpy, but unlike Gettysburg, these just didn't feel good enough in my hands to warrant making it into the nightly game rotation.
So, at last, we come to Bharata Series 2.
Since this deck is the reason I'm here writing all this, we are not only considering it in the context of other WJPCC decks, but also other Guru Playing Card Company decks. This is the first deck by Guru that I have that isn't gilded. Gilded decks are more likely to be clumpy and difficult to fan, and yet the feeling of the Divine Art deck was so compelling that, despite this being a somewhat pricey deck, I was still happy to expose it to my sons' inexpert hands in our nightly card games (and it has held up just fine). The first Bharata deck, also gilded, also a little clumpy, also felt totally fine in my hands (although, since Divine Art remains in rotation to this day, I did not add this one to the mix out of fear of being a little redundant.) Because Sunish asked for my thoughts on the Series 2 deck, I decided to add this most recent deck to our nightly rotation and see what happened.
Out of the box, Bharata Series 2 fans far better than its gilded predecessor from Guru and far better than Gettysburg and Elephant. I dare say, however, that it did not fan better out of the box than Hello Tiki did, although it might be fair to say it fanned about as well. NEO LTD and Haere Mai fanned far better out of the box, at least with regard to the single decks of each that I opened.
Quick side note: as should be obvious with our experience with Jackson Robinson's Legal Tender decks, and as I also had first hand experience with LPCC's Serpentine decks, you can sometimes have two decks from the same project behave completely differently out of the box. That issue may be more confined to EPCC/LPCC's China facility than to other manufacturers'. But, even so, I have to give the benefit of the doubt and say that my experience opening one deck in Seattle may produce different results from someone else opening up a different deck from the same run in some other part of the world.
Anyway.
While out-of-the-box fanning was mildly clumpy and did not improve for me with breaking in, the *feel* and slipperiness of the deck is really quite excellent. The cards are snappy and sturdy without being stiff. The finish has enough slipperiness to make the game play experience top notch. After repeated use for a couple weeks of our nightly games, the deck still holds up as near-new, which cannot be said of most decks we put through the paces.
This is one of WJPCC's thicker decks, but it is far more forgiving than any of WJPCC's other thick decks (particularly Gettysburg and Elephant). I rather like this stock a lot; I like the spring and snap. Not too supple, not too stiff. And, while I don't find the finish as close to perfection as Haere Mai or NEO LTD, I still like it a lot. I will also note that the printing quality, both with regard to color saturation and registration, is aces. The cut is fantastic, and the cards continue to retain their sharp edges.
Allow me to conclude with this:
This deck is a great addition to the Guru Playing Cards line-up. It is also a great addition to the WJPCC line-up. While it's handling is far superior to other Guru decks, you still can't beat Divine Art for setting the bar high with such durable, gilded, and foiled cards. On the WJPCC side, it sets an excellent balance between sturdiness and playability, slipperiness and resilience, and yet, I still have to favor Haere Mai as the high-water mark for WJPCC thus far.
I'm not surprised at the warm reception Bharata Series 2 is receiving. But, I wish WJPCC showed more consistent improvement from project to project rather than jumping back and forth between excellent results and... Elephants.
https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p134520
I've relocated it here because I'd like to see this updated with comparisons to more recent WJPCC decks, so I decided to tease this out of it's previous thread. As more of our favorite card designers are using WJPCC, I feel this is particularly relevant.
--------------------------------------
This is going to be a long post. You have been warned.
So, since I've posted here and elsewhere comments about various WJPCC decks in my collection, Sunish asked if I would share my thoughts about how the Bharata Series 2 deck compares to other WJPCC decks I've handled.
Toward that end, I decided to reacquaint myself with the decks in my collection that were manufactured by WJPCC. I picked the low-hanging fruit (ie, the ones which came immediately to mind), which are:
* RJ Tomlinson's Civil Unrest Gettysburg
* Montenzi's Haere Mai
* Montenzi's Hello Tiki
* Montenzi's NEO LTD
* Elephant Playing Cards' Elephants
* Guru's Bharata Series 2
I might have some others in my collection, but they elude me right at the moment.
One thing that all of these projects have in common is that they were all created by people whose work I truly appreciate. All of them have worked with other manufacturers, so there has also been an opportunity to compare their work as produced by multiple shops.
The first WJPCC project that I recall backing was the Civil Unrest Gettysburg series, when Robert Tomlinson decided to embark upon finding a manufacturer who was easier to work with than EPCC/LPCC and USPCC. The result was interesting. The card stock was amazingly sturdy, but the finish made for a deck that was clumpy and mostly bereft of "glide." The feel wasn't unpleasant (the way, I'm sad to say, NPCC's decks have tended to be for me, or Cartamuni's souvenir decks or MPC's smooth finish decks), and so I inserted one of these decks into my boys' and my rotation of nightly card game decks. Gotta say, the Gettysburg deck really took a beating, and still stayed true. After quite a bit of time in the rotation, the cards still have snap and the deck looks like it's received far less abuse than it actually has. Sturdy as hell, even if it was unable to fan even right out of the box.
Next came Montenzi's Haere Mai, which had full bleed backs and colors that really pop. And, wow, did these bad boys fan perfectly out of the box. Much thinner and lighter than Gettysburg, these cards were light and springy, and I swear the deck I opened would hold its own against any of my favorites printed by EPCC/LPCC. While these were sturdy, they weren't stiff like Gettysburg. I was so happy with this deck, I wanted to see more of my favorite creators going to WJPCC for their manufacturing.
The follow-up to Haere Mai, Hello Tiki, didn't fare as well. At least, the deck that I opened up. It fanned... okay-ish out of the box. Slightly stiffer stock. These were fine, I suppose, and certainly no worse than some output from EPCC/LPCC, but also no where near as good as some of the best from EPCC/LPCC. As far as manufacturing quality goes, this deck was a step backwards from Haere Mai. Not terrible, not by a long shot. And, nowhere near as clumpy as Gettysburg. But... yeah. They were okay. Great design, fine printing, kinda decent finish, and kinda decent stock, but... nothing to wow me the way its predecessor was.
Montenzi's NEO LTD feels like a half-step between Hello Tiki and Haere Mai. This one also has full bleed backs, which I love, but these backs reveal slight imperfections in the cutting registration that Haere Mai did not. These fan almost perfectly right out of the box, and they have a fascinating feel to them. Even if we classify this as only a half-step better than Hello Tiki, I *far* prefer NEO LTD to Hello Tiki in terms of manufacturing quality, and they only just barely fall short of the perfection that Haere Mai attained.
I want to pause here for a moment and re-iterate that all of these decks, I picked up because I truly appreciate the work done by their creators. In fact, one thing that all of these creators has in common (in addition to excellent design work) is their interest in taking bold risks to see what they can accomplish with their cards. Ben Jones of Elephant Playing Cards did some very innovative work with his Prism series (using "embossed" elements on the cards) and Pipmen (especially his Pipmen World design, which took his semi-transformation decks to a whole new level), and I was very interested to see how his approach to a "standard" deck would work out.
Unfortunately, the problem with the Elephants deck is WJPCC's work. This deck has a sturdiness and stiffness that is very much like the Gettysburg deck, but the clumpiness of the finish is even slightly worse than Gettysburg. This deck, manufacturing-wise, was not just a few steps back to where they started (for me), but perhaps a half a step back past that. It's one thing when the cards are a little clumpy, but unlike Gettysburg, these just didn't feel good enough in my hands to warrant making it into the nightly game rotation.
So, at last, we come to Bharata Series 2.
Since this deck is the reason I'm here writing all this, we are not only considering it in the context of other WJPCC decks, but also other Guru Playing Card Company decks. This is the first deck by Guru that I have that isn't gilded. Gilded decks are more likely to be clumpy and difficult to fan, and yet the feeling of the Divine Art deck was so compelling that, despite this being a somewhat pricey deck, I was still happy to expose it to my sons' inexpert hands in our nightly card games (and it has held up just fine). The first Bharata deck, also gilded, also a little clumpy, also felt totally fine in my hands (although, since Divine Art remains in rotation to this day, I did not add this one to the mix out of fear of being a little redundant.) Because Sunish asked for my thoughts on the Series 2 deck, I decided to add this most recent deck to our nightly rotation and see what happened.
Out of the box, Bharata Series 2 fans far better than its gilded predecessor from Guru and far better than Gettysburg and Elephant. I dare say, however, that it did not fan better out of the box than Hello Tiki did, although it might be fair to say it fanned about as well. NEO LTD and Haere Mai fanned far better out of the box, at least with regard to the single decks of each that I opened.
Quick side note: as should be obvious with our experience with Jackson Robinson's Legal Tender decks, and as I also had first hand experience with LPCC's Serpentine decks, you can sometimes have two decks from the same project behave completely differently out of the box. That issue may be more confined to EPCC/LPCC's China facility than to other manufacturers'. But, even so, I have to give the benefit of the doubt and say that my experience opening one deck in Seattle may produce different results from someone else opening up a different deck from the same run in some other part of the world.
Anyway.
While out-of-the-box fanning was mildly clumpy and did not improve for me with breaking in, the *feel* and slipperiness of the deck is really quite excellent. The cards are snappy and sturdy without being stiff. The finish has enough slipperiness to make the game play experience top notch. After repeated use for a couple weeks of our nightly games, the deck still holds up as near-new, which cannot be said of most decks we put through the paces.
This is one of WJPCC's thicker decks, but it is far more forgiving than any of WJPCC's other thick decks (particularly Gettysburg and Elephant). I rather like this stock a lot; I like the spring and snap. Not too supple, not too stiff. And, while I don't find the finish as close to perfection as Haere Mai or NEO LTD, I still like it a lot. I will also note that the printing quality, both with regard to color saturation and registration, is aces. The cut is fantastic, and the cards continue to retain their sharp edges.
Allow me to conclude with this:
This deck is a great addition to the Guru Playing Cards line-up. It is also a great addition to the WJPCC line-up. While it's handling is far superior to other Guru decks, you still can't beat Divine Art for setting the bar high with such durable, gilded, and foiled cards. On the WJPCC side, it sets an excellent balance between sturdiness and playability, slipperiness and resilience, and yet, I still have to favor Haere Mai as the high-water mark for WJPCC thus far.
I'm not surprised at the warm reception Bharata Series 2 is receiving. But, I wish WJPCC showed more consistent improvement from project to project rather than jumping back and forth between excellent results and... Elephants.
Otherwise, they were not able to cut it properly, and it was a risk of damaging the machine. It is what it is. Faro is almost impossible. 
