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Saturn Playing Cards,

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... ying-cards

Seems to be a cardistry deck using standard EPCC faces with a colour change. Also interesting that it includes cardistry tutorials dependent on pledge level...

Seriously since when does using a marker and going over the detailed design make the design better ? Different yes, better ? Hell no.

And I really should revive my little thread about them back design..

2 black Jokers.
The indices look a bit off. They are not in the prime location. You don't have to line up the indices with the court border. They should be independent of the courts.
Cards, T-shirts and Skateboards. Oh, my! This must be a fanboy deck...

What I don't understand is why move things? When its a straight colour change on the original design, how could the indices even be out of line?

The indices do look off. That bothers me a lot.

Fes wrote:The indices do look off. That bothers me a lot.

Dont let this bother you, just dont look at it

volantangel wrote:

Fes wrote:The indices do look off. That bothers me a lot.

Dont let this bother you, just dont look at it

This creator is real mature. I made 1 little comment on FB and he responded like this

well you can suck a dick
---------------------------------
Vic: Like we need more decks like this

Then his buddy Benji, creator of the Icons, proceeded to tell me to F off, call me weird and tell me nobody likes me, which is absolutely not true and then Franky blocked me. True professionalism at it's finest.

So what did you say to provoke such a response?

It's right there,

"Like we need more decks like this"

That was apparently enough, just questioning the need for this. He apparently felt it was a personal attack, I didn't say anything about him.

Cbkimble wrote:So what did you say to provoke such a response?

Vic: Like we need more decks like this

Honestly im sick of this little group of tight knit people, who takes every little negative comment and blows it out of proportion

I was just asking. Normally Vic does provoke his attackers. It was very excessive reply and Vic has a reputation.

Cbkimble wrote:I was just asking. Normally Vic does provoke his attackers. It was very excessive reply and Vic has a reputation.

His reply was crude, probably should have thought things through before he did so

Yes as such I felt the need to let his backers know about it, lol.

jerichoholic wrote:Yes as such I felt the need to let his backers know about it, lol.

You do have Reputation Vic and you were doing so good

volantangel wrote:Seriously since when does using a marker and going over the detailed design make the design better ? Different yes, better ? Hell no.

And I really should revive my little thread about them back design..

Simplified court cards are gorgeous! I know this is subjective of course but saying simplifying the court cards makes them worse is just as subjective. I like those court cards (though he initially wanted to buy a set of court cards I made but then changed his mind.).
The back design... not so much. I like this kind of back design usually but this logo kind of bothers me, I'm not sure why but I think it's because the lines that make up the logo are so thin... might be because of what I study though, I don't think it would have bothered me otherwise. I won't be backing this deck but I like the fact that people are still making decks in this style.

Mirror wrote: I like those court cards (though he initially wanted to buy a set of court cards I made but then changed his mind.)

Back up a sec. Elaborate.

Eoghann wrote:

Mirror wrote: I like those court cards (though he initially wanted to buy a set of court cards I made but then changed his mind.)

Back up a sec. Elaborate.

I made a set of simplified Bicycle court cards, pretty similar to the original S&M courts but still all hand made (except hands and faces). He contacted me asking if I would sell the design for him to use but my price was too high and so I will keep using them for myself (so the work wasn't for nothing).

Mirror wrote:

volantangel wrote:Seriously since when does using a marker and going over the detailed design make the design better ? Different yes, better ? Hell no.

And I really should revive my little thread about them back design..

Simplified court cards are gorgeous! I know this is subjective of course but saying simplifying the court cards makes them worse is just as subjective. I like those court cards (though he initially wanted to buy a set of court cards I made but then changed his mind.).
The back design... not so much. I like this kind of back design usually but this logo kind of bothers me, I'm not sure why but I think it's because the lines that make up the logo are so thin... might be because of what I study though, I don't think it would have bothered me otherwise. I won't be backing this deck but I like the fact that people are still making decks in this style.

Haha I didn't say they were worse, just not better. But yes that back design isn't good at all, not so much the logo, it's about the proportions.

The guy is a good cardist, but not a good deck designer. Here is a breakdown of the Saturn deck, which happens to be the quintessential model of "minimalist" (aka non-imaginative) decks:

Back design: If you don't have the chops to actually create or design anything, just take a logo, any logo, and copy the Wynn format. Voila! Back "design"!

Court cards: If you don't have the artistic talent to come up with custom court cards, just take any existing court cards and either re-color or simplify the clothing and copy the Smoke & Mirror format.

Ace of Spades: If you don't have the creativity to come up with your own Ace of Spades, just copy another company's stock Ace of Spades! And then insist that this is Simple. Elegant. Iconic. You never know, someone gullible might actually believe its actually Simple. Elegant. Iconic.

Jokers: If you lack the imagination to produce unique Jokers, hell, just copy another company's stock Jokers. What works for the AoS should work for the Jokers, too, right? Why bother with putting in any actual effort? Just keep repeating Simple. Elegant. Iconic.

Tuck box: To top things off, why not use the most ill-conceived, impractical tuck box ever created. That's right, use the EPCC side tuck! To be concerned that it's mind-numbingly inconvenient to put the cards back into that tuck (because that unglued bottom flap always gets in the way) shows that you actually care. Oh no, can't have that. Wait a minute, some sort of art or design has to be put on the tuck, right? Just put in a clear window instead! Hurray for doing zero amount of work on a "custom" deck!

Its hard to believe I actually put in more time and effort in this post than what was put into this "minimalist" deck. . .

I have a feeling the trend of internet famous cardists/flourishers attempting to cash in on their followers by producing a custom deck of cards (often not very well designed) will come full force this year. It worked for Benji. Why not everyone else, right?

EDIT: I meant Zach.

Sher wrote:I have a feeling the trend of internet famous cardists/flourishers attempting to cash in on their followers by producing a custom deck of cards (often not very well designed) will come full force this year. It worked for Benji. Why not everyone else, right?

It worked for Zach at first. And then for Benji. Though I have to say Benji's deck was really nicely done imo.

Back to this deck: Like I said it's not the greatest in my opinion but to answer Victor's question in a non offensive way: Yes we do need more decks like this. Collectors don't, others do. May they never stop. May there be many.

sinjin7 wrote:The guy is a good cardist, but not a good deck designer. Here is a breakdown of the Saturn deck, which happens to be the quintessential model of "minimalist" (aka non-imaginative) decks:

Back design: If you don't have the chops to actually create or design anything, just take a logo, any logo, and copy the Wynn format. Voila! Back "design"!

Court cards: If you don't have the artistic talent to come up with custom court cards, just take any existing court cards and either re-color or simplify the clothing and copy the Smoke & Mirror format.

Ace of Spades: If you don't have the creativity to come up with your own Ace of Spades, just copy another company's stock Ace of Spades! And then insist that this is Simple. Elegant. Iconic. You never know, someone gullible might actually believe its actually Simple. Elegant. Iconic.

Jokers: If you lack the imagination to produce unique Jokers, hell, just copy another company's stock Jokers. What works for the AoS should work for the Jokers, too, right? Why bother with putting in any actual effort? Just keep repeating Simple. Elegant. Iconic.

Tuck box: To top things off, why not use the most ill-conceived, impractical tuck box ever created. That's right, use the EPCC side tuck! To be concerned that it's mind-numbingly inconvenient to put the cards back into that tuck (because that unglued bottom flap always gets in the way) shows that you actually care. Oh no, can't have that. Wait a minute, some sort of art or design has to be put on the tuck, right? Just put in a clear window instead! Hurray for doing zero amount of work on a "custom" deck!

Its hard to believe I actually put in more time and effort in this post than what was put into this "minimalist" deck. . .

I couldnt agree more.

Mirror wrote:

Sher wrote:I have a feeling the trend of internet famous cardists/flourishers attempting to cash in on their followers by producing a custom deck of cards (often not very well designed) will come full force this year. It worked for Benji. Why not everyone else, right?

It worked for Zach at first. And then for Benji. Though I have to say Benji's deck was really nicely done imo.

Back to this deck: Like I said it's not the greatest in my opinion but to answer Victor's question in a non offensive way: Yes we do need more decks like this. Collectors don't, others do. May they never stop. May there be many.

Oops. I meant Zach, actually. I was thinking of the Fontaines, not the Icons deck, which was nicer and had more effort than the Fontaines , really.

I don't know about others needing this deck. I personally don't think it contributes much. The virtuouso decks, for example, I can see why cardists and flourishers would like it because the back design makes handling and flourishes look nice. The Saturn deck doesn't look like to would look nice in fans or be that attractive when someone does a flourish. Same with the Fontaines. Their success seems more to do with the popularity of the creator (who is popular because of talents not related to design), rather than because the deck is actually well designed.

It's like how "Call Me Maybe" was received with lukewarm reaction (debuting at #97 on the Hit 100 chart), but then Justin Bieber tweeted about it, and suddenly everyone loved it and it skyrocketed to #1 for nine weeks. Never underestimate the influence of a celebrity.

Sher wrote:

Mirror wrote:

Sher wrote:I have a feeling the trend of internet famous cardists/flourishers attempting to cash in on their followers by producing a custom deck of cards (often not very well designed) will come full force this year. It worked for Benji. Why not everyone else, right?

It worked for Zach at first. And then for Benji. Though I have to say Benji's deck was really nicely done imo.

Back to this deck: Like I said it's not the greatest in my opinion but to answer Victor's question in a non offensive way: Yes we do need more decks like this. Collectors don't, others do. May they never stop. May there be many.

Oops. I meant Zach, actually. I was thinking of the Fontaines, not the Icons deck, which was nicer and had more effort than the Fontaines , really.

I don't know about others needing this deck. I personally don't think it contributes much. The virtuouso decks, for example, I can see why cardists and flourishers would like it because the back design makes handling and flourishes look nice. The Saturn deck doesn't look like to would look nice in fans or be that attractive when someone does a flourish. Same with the Fontaines. Their success seems more to do with the popularity of the creator (who is popular because of talents not related to design), rather than because the deck is actually well designed.

It's like how "Call Me Maybe" was received with lukewarm reaction (debuting at #97 on the Hit 100 chart), but then Justin Bieber tweeted about it, and suddenly everyone loved it and it skyrocketed to #1 for nine weeks. Never underestimate the influence of a celebrity.

I think in this case it's not one "celebrity" that started the hype around simplistic minimal decks with the Wynn formula. It was a collective of many cardists who really appreciated the Bee Wynn playing cards for their design and handling. But since Wynn's are kind of hard to get nowadays, cardists that haven't been cardists for long enough to get Wynns while their price was still reasonable appreciate decks like this because they convey a similar feel through their design.

Why is the Bee Wynn design so popular? This isn't a rhetorical question, I really do want to know what's so great about it from a cardist's perspective. What about its design is so great that it's worth copying? Because as a spectator, it's not exactly an eye catching back design. But that might just be me.

Sher wrote:Why is the Bee Wynn design so popular? This isn't a rhetorical question, I really do want to know what's so great about it from a cardist's perspective. What about its design is so great that it's worth copying? Because as a spectator, it's not exactly an eye catching back design. But that might just be me.

I believe it follows the concept of "less is more". Since the cards move around a lot during flourishes, any intricate design will be lost in the movements. Also, two distinctive icons/emblems/logos makes displays (e.g. The Werm, see pic below) look more impressive, probably due to a slight optical illusion (each card having 2 thingies gives the visual impression of there being double the amount of cards).



Another thing that makes it "worth" copying is that it's very easy to do, so there's a cost-efficiency factor in there too.

I do agree with you though, Sher. Personally I much prefer something like the Virts deck, which is still simple but actually has some work put into it and (IMO) enhances flourishes more than the above design.

PS. Still waiting for that Encarded cardist deck, I hope Paul didn't forget about it

The Wynn decks are nice because they have a classy and attractive logo, and the purplish blue and almost burgundy red backs were unique and not the usual blue and red that everyone was used to back in the day, in addition to the points Tom made in the previous post. The cards stock is thick, durable, and has fantastic snap and when broken in properly, you had a high performing deck that lasted a long time.

Having said that, the logo layout is quite common among casino cards so there's nothing unique about Wynn's in that regards. As with a lot of older decks (I don't consider these vintage yet), the finish is inconsistent so the Wynns aren't a go-to deck for flourishers who feature fanning. And the Tech-Art (jumbo) faces are distracting and aren't really conducive for cardistry. I would argue Wynns are a far better deck for magic than cardistry.

To be honest, the real reason Wynns are so popular is because Theory11 hyped the crap out of the Brown Wynns. Simple as that. It also didn't hurt that the Buck twins featured them in some of their videos. Before T11 sold the Brown Wynns, no one really gave a damn about Wynn decks.

sinjin7 wrote:The Wynn decks are nice because they have a classy and attractive logo, and the purplish blue and almost burgundy red backs were unique and not the usual blue and red that everyone was used to back in the day, in addition to the points Tom made in the previous post. The cards stock is thick, durable, and has fantastic snap and when broken in properly, you had a high performing deck that lasted a long time.

Having said that, the logo layout is quite common among casino cards so there's nothing unique about Wynn's in that regards. As with a lot of older decks (I don't consider these vintage yet), the finish is inconsistent so the Wynns aren't a go-to deck for flourishers who feature fanning. And the Tech-Art (jumbo) faces are distracting and aren't really conducive for cardistry. I would argue Wynns are a far better deck for magic than cardistry.

To be honest, the real reason Wynns are so popular is because Theory11 hyped the crap out of the Brown Wynns. Simple as that. It also didn't hurt that the Buck twins featured them in some of their videos. Before T11 sold the Brown Wynns, no one really gave a damn about Wynn decks.

I can't say much about Wynns from personal experience since I don't own any but I have some Anglo decks with Jumbo indexes and I find them quite pleasing honestly. At least they are not as distracting as I though they would be when I bought them. The only thing Jumbo Indexes really mess up for me personally is fans. Any kind of fans look just awful with those giant pips.

Thanks for the explanation, Tom and sinjin