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From Natalia Silva. Black deck of her CALAVERAS DE AZÚCAR in a fancy wrapper not meant to be opened.

Just posted a comment There are way too many decks offered. The 200 count is for backers but when you add the decks possible it comes to 464 ooops

A project just for a tuck swap? Pass. Should have just been offered on the original project.

Am I the only one that thinks this looks like an elementary school "construction paper" project? Not my cup of juice.

Given that it is already funded, I'm guessing she has found her audience.

rousselle wrote:Given that it is already funded, I'm guessing she has found her audience.

The goal is $500... Hard for it not to fund really.

JuFiN wrote:

rousselle wrote:Given that it is already funded, I'm guessing she has found her audience.

The goal is $500... Hard for it not to fund really.

It's hard for some people: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/jas ... ns/created" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I fail to see how this project doesn't completely break this Kickstarter rule.

Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way.

She's done exactly that with this one. Sorry but reported. Natalia can do so much better than reselling already produced decks in an artificially rare collector's tuck swap.

jerichoholic wrote: Sorry but reported.

Victor, must you always be such a D***?!! What does it matter to you what other people do in their KS projects? There are obviously a lot of people who want this deck (no, I did not back), so why are you trying to ruin it for them and Natalia? Do you get satisfaction in affecting people's livelihood?

Firstly, I don't think my report will make a difference. But more importantly it is clearly against KS terms and I just don't think anyone should be above the rules or get special treatment.

jerichoholic wrote:Firstly, I don't think my report will make a difference. But more importantly it is clearly against KS terms and I just don't think anyone should be above the rules or get special treatment.

Then why report? There are dozens (if not hundreds) of projects that don't fit the rules, so why don't you go through all of them and report each and everyone? In the end, I think that you can do more constructive things with your time and be a more positive contributor instead of always being so negative.

Well, in all fairness, leaving Kickstarter for what it's meant, gathering funds to produce a new product, and not just a storefront, benefits all. It helps keeping noise out and gives the chance to struggling new creators to the dollars that are being spent at the moment, split between the current live projects. I agree with Victor on purging a little bit.
Bad design will appear and will fail, but it might help newcomers to succeed, in my opinion.

jsantafe wrote:Well, in all fairness, leaving Kickstarter for what it's meant, gathering funds to produce a new product, and not just a storefront, benefits all. It helps keeping noise out and gives the chance to struggling new creators to the dollars that are being spent at the moment, split between the current live projects. I agree with Victor on purging a little bit.
Bad design will appear and will fail, but it might help newcomers to succeed, in my opinion.

Would it be ideal that KS was a place that creators could gather funds to produce a new product? Yes, but in reality it is not as there have been tons of projects that use KS as a storefront...this definitely is not the first (nor last).

I also don't necessarily agree that any project will take that much away from another product unless they were really similar in nature and in the end, people will chose to back what they want.

My biggest issue is with Victor's rant is his selective targeting of projects (yes, he has called out many of projects in the past, but doesn't report them all) and especially his timing. If we are being so righteous, then why not report it immediately when the project launched as opposed to a week later, when it is already funded many fold? If it does get cancelled, you not only disappoint the creator, but also the hundred plus backers who want the deck.

Wasn't Jody Eklund's latest Innovation deck just a tuck swap? Sure, he printed more decks, but they were already printed before and he just gave it a new tuck (yes, I backed the project). I know some people did comment about it here on UC, but Victor was not one of them nor did he report it to KS (as far as I am aware).

Also, if we look at the rule that Victor references (Projects that share things that already exist, or repackage a previously-created product, without adding anything new or aiming to iterate on the idea in any way), you could say that both Jody's and Natalia's projects are trying to iterate on their previous idea as their latest products are meant to be collected and not to be played with. (From Natalia's project - "Please, note that this deck is more delicate than a standard deck of cards, and not meant for everyday playing, this is more a collector's item")

Victor understands not rhyme nor reason, nor rationale, nor irony.
What he does understand sadly is victimhood, either in grasping it for himself, or what is worse, inflicting it on someone else to deflect the fact of his own failing.
Too afraid by far to make an examination of his own self ....
In pointing the finger at others he owns his failures, but sees not the fact.
Poor, poor victim.
Not.

Well, this is certainly an interesting discussion!

Sherman: IMO, you can't really fault someone for reporting a project that they feel is breaking the rules. The two possible outcomes are either A) KS agrees with the report and enforces their rules, which is likely to have happened anyway; or B) KS disagrees and does nothing. If you don't want A to happen, then you should complain to KS regarding their rules, not about someone filing a report.

Stuff KS.
How to ....
1 Wake victor up.
2 Get him to pull his head in.

3 Why protect victor ....
4 Why lower the bar ....

The object being, to raise awareness .... now .... not defer it until later.

Tom, you are right that I shouldn't fault someone for reporting a project to KS, but as I stated, my issue was how it was done (a week after the project started and after it was highly funded) and the selective nature of it (why this one and not others). If someone wants to 'purge' KS of 'against the rules projects, then be consistent and not selective.

I apologize for the rants (and will stop here). I guess I am also expressing my frustration with all the negativity that Victor regularly brings to the forum and KS projects. I accept Victor is an integral part of our community and don't want him to stop giving his input, but I just wish he could be more constructive and positive as opposed to being so negative most of the time.

No need for any apolgy from you shermjack. IMO.

Anyhoo I have a marvelous book on the search for India's lost emperor calling me.
Ashoka.
Take care y'all.

I report a lot of projects, any that appear to be breaking rules or are fishy for whatever reason.

Jody Eklund's latest deck is a brand new color/deck last I checked.

Anyway it's also interesting with this project that Natalia is offering a second variation of the tuck with a female skull but only via her website, why is that? Why not offer both via her website or both via Kickstarter? Why use the project to promote a deck that is on her website only? Also why make it so that many backers have to pay shipping twice? It just seems pretty weird that she would do that and that it would make a lot of extra work for her.

jerichoholic wrote:Jody Eklund's latest deck is a brand new color/deck last I checked

Victor, I stand corrected and apologize for using Jody's deck as a reference.

As for Natalia selling the female deck on her site, I don't know why she is doing that (maybe avoid KS fees), but we also don't know if she will ship them separately or not. As they will be completed and shipped in two weeks after the end of the project, she could theorhetically ship them together, saving herself effort and postage.

I will end with this quote...'Always look on the bright side of life!"

Damn, I am glad I decided to pop some corn before I engaged here, then got taken off course and ended up back here after 6-8 hours.

Totally one sided against Natalia, Vic? I don't understand why, she's always been nice and kind to you.

Mike Ratledge wrote:Damn, I am glad I decided to pop some corn before I engaged here, then got taken off course and ended up back here after 6-8 hours.

Totally one sided against Natalia, Vic? I don't understand why, she's always been nice and kind to you.

Can't say I see why it makes a difference, if it gets taken down it is because of KS rules which are likely to be enforced sooner or later, someone "blowing the whistle" shouldn't really get any flak for that. If it breaks the rules, it breaks the rules (official ruling pending), regardless of who the project creator is.

As for the report being filed late in the project, I would argue that it's better than being filed right away because the project gets publicity and therefore can be relaunched on a different venue with perhaps more backers/customers than if it had been cancelled right away.

The thing is that we know how hard they enforce the rules for funded projects. For the most part they laugh all the way to the bank with their 5%

I'm sure there must be more, but I only remember once - ever - a funded project was canceled, and it was a clear copyright stolen situation.

oh WOW!

I didn't know what is going on here!

Victor Jose, you are very "Grateful person"....for all the discounts that I gave you....yeahhhhhh.....

Victor Jose this is what calls "Limited and Luxury" Edition, if you didn't know. Kickstarter rules are about re-packaging something NOT YOURS or something that is already exist as an actual product out there. My decks are not even out yet, they are not for sale anywhere, you can't find them in the store, so technically I am following all the rules. I can print the decks with MPC and change the boarder of the back design.............is this would be enough for you? hahah, OF COURSE NOT! You will find something else.........price, quantity, quality.........etc.

... [mod'd]

Victor Jose, YOU ARE BANNNED from all my Kickstarter campaign, YOU ARE BANNNED from all my social media, don't ever contact me again.

If you continue to troll me or my campaigns, I will use legal services.

Natalia

That's two creators now that have banned Victor. Who do you think will give him the hat trick?

I'm sorry you feel that way, though i'm not exactly sure what discounts you are referring too.

Personally I think you can do better, come up with something else. It is however a creative way to resell extra decks to people who already bought them in a previous project. If Ellusionist did this people would be up in arms over it no doubt.

Either way if you ask me what you've done is exactly what was spelled out in that Kickstarter term, took a deck you already funded and put it in a new box/package. Perhaps you understand things differently than I do.

Next time perhaps I won't bother to mention it. I think if it was some other random creator then people wouldn't be speaking up against me.

And you want to threaten me with legal services for what exactly?

Also Mike, nothing against Natalia, just not a big fan of this whole idea. Like I said, if it was someone else doing it then i'm sure I wouldn't be the only speaking up against it.

victor !

.... victor as the voice of vomit.

keep going vic, that swamp is entirely of your own making.


Allan !

Bruno!

Doesn't seem to matter to me if someone's violating Kickstarter rules as long as the product is as promised, delivered right and people not cheated out of their money.

My two cents? I think it's a nice deck with fine artwork, as usual from Natalia. But I just have too many day of the dead-themed decks in my collection. I would offer Natalia good luck but as this project is already well funded I don't think she needs it!