Have been designing this and want some opinions

[DynAmiX]

The deck is called STAFF Playing Cards.
Basically a border-less fully custom deck based on music staff and elements.
I am a big big fan of minimalism so I love simple.
I designed it mainly for cardistry, but it can also be played as poker with flat, sharp, double-flat and double-sharp representing diamond, club, heart and spade respectively.
This will probably be the first in a series or collection, as there are so much potentials from music elements. That's why I put V1 on the tuck.
I'm considering of starting a Kickstarter campaign.
What do you guys think? Any suggestions? Will this work out fine on Kickstarter?

[Jocu]

Hey! We spoke on Reddit. Great shout coming here for advice, you can see from the other threads how useful it is and how the members really know their stuff.

So I’ll get the ball rolling by repeating what I said on Reddit - I think there’s a nice concept for a deck here and with a few tweaks from the experienced heads here (and potential backers) it could be a great project. Good luck!

[Timmargh]

I'm no expert, but I know what I like and I really like this idea.

[PipChick]

hi DynAmiX,

great to have you join us here and give us a preview of the deck you're working on - awesome to see new designers & creators seeking feedback from the community and I hope we can help in giving you some valuable pointers to consider as the design progresses in it's improvement.

First off, I think this concept is interesting but I'm worried that the reference material (ie. just the music notes) might not be enough - sure, it fits to the theme of music to a tee (is there honestly anything better that alludes to music that just good 'ol fashion music notes lol), but for me, it still feels kinda bare and uninspired... buuuuttt if it's minimalism you're going for then I suppose it's just a difference in taste that has me finding the designs a bit lacking in interest and that's just a personal preference. Maybe I'd find it more appealing if there was something more featured as a focus point in the design - like an instrument or musician - or even if the designs were styled in a more painterly illustrative aesthetic as in reference to the beautiful calligraphy of handwritten sheet music - this would at least give the notes a bit more feeling & movement as it would be more expressive than the perfectly stagnant computer-generated notes we currently see here - but this may not fit with the modern, minimalistic aesthetic you're trying to achieve with this theme, and this is, again, just personal taste preferences and does not speak on behalf of the opinions of others. Many may love the style as is and this is just my first impression and thoughts so take it with a grain of salt

However, I can provide feedback in regards to the suit pips; these I think are going to be the biggest point of contention among everyone regardless of stylistic taste preferences because they deviate so far from the standard/traditional suit pips and, if you hadn't explicitly explained which of the pip symbols are intended to represent which suit, I honestly wouldn't have really been able to decipher them for myself outside of the red & black suit colors. I mean, sure, having 4 different suits does mean that you can play poker with this deck, but it's not by any means practical to do so and I think that greatly deters those that use their cards for gameplay from picking this deck up for that reason. Now, that's not to say that there aren't plenty of decks with less than orthodox pip designs, but at least they still were able to retain some slight resemblance to the pip shape without compromising the theme - the most recent example of a deck that I think was successful in executing non-traditional pips that still were practical was those created for The Water Margin deck (def worth checking out).

Also, besides the ambiguous pips, I could also imagine that if all the courts are styled in the the same fashion within the same suit, it could be another cause of difficulty when it comes to readability in gameplay - with only the indice, how else will a QoS be noticeably different from a KoS?? just from the number of notes featured on the card?? I'm not sure that's enough to distinguish the courts from one another within a suit and may seem a bit boring when shown together as a whole which may not attract collectors that value the art of a deck's design over practicality in gameplay.

This deck might mostly be geared towards cardists, but even then, I'm not sure the design lends itself well for that due to the use of so few colors and large areas of blank space - for example, even with the borderless back, imagine fanning that deck; all you'll see are the black lines of the sheet music in either direction... I'm sorry to say, but it doesn't appeal as very exciting for me...

These are just some of my first impressions and thoughts/opinions though and I can't really say how a kickstarter project of this deck would go as there have been several decks that I've personally found to be amazing, and yet struggle to reach funding (if at all), while others I personally find to be of lesser quality in design blow past the funding goal in no time. Estimating success when it comes to KS these days seems less and less clear-cut in determining whether or not a deck will make it or not. Perhaps I just don't fit into the target market audience for a deck like this, but hopefully, you can get some more feedback from others and further improve upon the design to fit the appeal of those that do.

Regardless, best of luck and thanks for sharing with us - I look forward to see how the design of this deck progresses

[Magic Tapp]

Amy has put it much more eloquently than I ever would but, with the nearly undeciferable suits, I imagine this deck would be of limited appeal to card collectors and those of us who actually play with the cards.

Form is sort of nice but a little bit of substance would not hurt either.

[shimmering]

The appearance is really neat ...

Of course many card fans may / will not like the idea of alternative suits. But as that is the entire idea behind the deck, changing to the usual suits would rather defeat the point.

At the level of music I play, I never ever come across double flat / double sharp. I fear you may alienate those who went along with the nonstandard suits by choosing some of the most obscure musical symbols there are. I see you have used rests for jokers and/or gaffes but could you do something like use rests and notes (other things typically found on staves) for two other suits to add to sharps and flats. I guess you have different key signatures for the JQK (not shown), and you could I am sure think of different note/rest values to represent in a similar way.

Random historical aside: did you know there are some cards from a long time ago with musical scores on the back. Different pieces of music on different cards, so a bit of a marked deck if you were familiar with it.

[DynAmiX]

Hey! We spoke on Reddit. Great shout coming here for advice, you can see from the other threads how useful it is and how the members really know their stuff.

So I’ll get the ball rolling by repeating what I said on Reddit - I think there’s a nice concept for a deck here and with a few tweaks from the experienced heads here (and potential backers) it could be a great project. Good luck!

Hello Jocu, thank you for the suggestion and I will combine all of the responses from both Reddit and here in UC and post again when I done redesigning it.

[DynAmiX]

hi DynAmiX,

great to have you join us here and give us a preview of the deck you're working on - awesome to see new designers & creators seeking feedback from the community and I hope we can help in giving you some valuable pointers to consider as the design progresses in it's improvement.

First off, I think this concept is interesting but I'm worried that the reference material (ie. just the music notes) might not be enough - sure, it fits to the theme of music to a tee (is there honestly anything better that alludes to music that just good 'ol fashion music notes lol), but for me, it still feels kinda bare and uninspired... buuuuttt if it's minimalism you're going for then I suppose it's just a difference in taste that has me finding the designs a bit lacking in interest and that's just a personal preference. Maybe I'd find it more appealing if there was something more featured as a focus point in the design - like an instrument or musician - or even if the designs were styled in a more painterly illustrative aesthetic as in reference to the beautiful calligraphy of handwritten sheet music - this would at least give the notes a bit more feeling & movement as it would be more expressive than the perfectly stagnant computer-generated notes we currently see here - but this may not fit with the modern, minimalistic aesthetic you're trying to achieve with this theme, and this is, again, just personal taste preferences and does not speak on behalf of the opinions of others. Many may love the style as is and this is just my first impression and thoughts so take it with a grain of salt

However, I can provide feedback in regards to the suit pips; these I think are going to be the biggest point of contention among everyone regardless of stylistic taste preferences because they deviate so far from the standard/traditional suit pips and, if you hadn't explicitly explained which of the pip symbols are intended to represent which suit, I honestly wouldn't have really been able to decipher them for myself outside of the red & black suit colors. I mean, sure, having 4 different suits does mean that you can play poker with this deck, but it's not by any means practical to do so and I think that greatly deters those that use their cards for gameplay from picking this deck up for that reason. Now, that's not to say that there aren't plenty of decks with less than orthodox pip designs, but at least they still were able to retain some slight resemblance to the pip shape without compromising the theme - the most recent example of a deck that I think was successful in executing non-traditional pips that still were practical was those created for The Water Margin deck (def worth checking out).

Also, besides the ambiguous pips, I could also imagine that if all the courts are styled in the the same fashion within the same suit, it could be another cause of difficulty when it comes to readability in gameplay - with only the indice, how else will a QoS be noticeably different from a KoS?? just from the number of notes featured on the card?? I'm not sure that's enough to distinguish the courts from one another within a suit and may seem a bit boring when shown together as a whole which may not attract collectors that value the art of a deck's design over practicality in gameplay.

This deck might mostly be geared towards cardists, but even then, I'm not sure the design lends itself well for that due to the use of so few colors and large areas of blank space - for example, even with the borderless back, imagine fanning that deck; all you'll see are the black lines of the sheet music in either direction... I'm sorry to say, but it doesn't appeal as very exciting for me...

These are just some of my first impressions and thoughts/opinions though and I can't really say how a kickstarter project of this deck would go as there have been several decks that I've personally found to be amazing, and yet struggle to reach funding (if at all), while others I personally find to be of lesser quality in design blow past the funding goal in no time. Estimating success when it comes to KS these days seems less and less clear-cut in determining whether or not a deck will make it or not. Perhaps I just don't fit into the target market audience for a deck like this, but hopefully, you can get some more feedback from others and further improve upon the design to fit the appeal of those that do.

Regardless, best of luck and thanks for sharing with us - I look forward to see how the design of this deck progresses

Hello PipChick, thank you very much for leaving a reply, I'm new to creating decks and this forum, and I am glad that I joined.

I am aware of the problem that not many people are into the idea of minimalism, I am currently finding a middle point to keep the deck still simple and as minimal as possible, yet can make people feel not that empty.

About the pips and court cards, I am in progress of desigining new suits which combine the four music key signatures and standard four suits together, and for the court cards I may change them into something that would relate to manuscripts by different composers.

I have thought about the problem of too much blank space and too less colors to be used for cardistry, maybe I am too into minimalism designs, such as the white NOC Out is one of my most favourite decks.

Anyway I am working on redesigning on certain parts of the deck already, thank you for the reply and I will post any updated here as soon as I have something completed.

[DynAmiX]

The appearance is really neat ...

Of course many card fans may / will not like the idea of alternative suits. But as that is the entire idea behind the deck, changing to the usual suits would rather defeat the point.

At the level of music I play, I never ever come across double flat / double sharp. I fear you may alienate those who went along with the nonstandard suits by choosing some of the most obscure musical symbols there are. I see you have used rests for jokers and/or gaffes but could you do something like use rests and notes (other things typically found on staves) for two other suits to add to sharps and flats. I guess you have different key signatures for the JQK (not shown), and you could I am sure think of different note/rest values to represent in a similar way.

Random historical aside: did you know there are some cards from a long time ago with musical scores on the back. Different pieces of music on different cards, so a bit of a marked deck if you were familiar with it.

Hello shimmering and thank you for the reply!

I understand the problem of alternative suits as almost everyone say it is not easy to remember the relating suit. As a solution, instead of using ordinary suits, I am currently creating four new ones which combine the four music signatures with usual suits together. So the suits can be easily determined yet the idea of the deck is still here.

I never heard of a deck with musical scores on them! It is kind of similar to what I am designing right now. May I know the name of the deck?

[shimmering]

Hiya, I'm afraid I can't remember where I have seen these pictures of the playing cards with the different songs on the back. I think from Germany, maybe not, I think at least 200 years old, maybe rather older. I had a little look just now but couldn't find anything. Sorry. If I remember I'll post it. Anyway, I just searched WOPC to see if I could find them. As I say, I didn't, but I did find something called the Muso Deck which you might want to check if you have not seen it as it is conceptually rather similar to your work (and rather more recent than what I was looking for).

[shimmering]

Turns out it was very easy for me to find the cards I was talking about for if I just looked in a book instead of trying to find pics on my computer or on the internet. Pick up a book and spend a few seconds flicking through and there they are ... who knew.

So it was these cards by Peter Flötner, Germany, ca 1545. You can see they have different musical scores on the card backs:
http://www.wopc.co.uk/germany/flottner" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wingedpotato]

Just popping in to say I agree with all the comments here but I am really looking forward to your next iteration. I think you are really on to something, but it will take trial and error and refining to get there. Cheers!